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Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#521

Post by mantas »

ausbah wrote: post #482
sacnoradhq wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a widespread lack of male role models, absentee fathers, and anything and everything male bashing. The ladies could be mentioning to the guys specific constructive feedback, because the guys probably don't know how they're failing or how they're making others feel. The surprising and shocking secret of being a ladies' man, is underwhelming and doesn't get press: being human and treating others as human accord…

why does it fall on the person being made uncomfortable to correct the behavior of the being making them uncomfortable?

Who else would? If something makes you uncomfortable and you don't try to correct that... It will keep going. Of course, sometimes that's not possible (threat of physical violence and whatnot), but in many cases it is perfectly fine. Especially if the other person is just naively making you uncomfortable instead of trying to harm you.

And being corrected on the spot is much more effective than someone else telling you days later you did something wrong. At least for me, I remember very well few times I was dumbass and that was made painfully clear to me. I remember those lessons to this day and it sure did help me.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#522

Post by stavros »

jimbokun wrote: post #313
stavros wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Acceptable" may have been the wrong word, I more meant "normalized", sorry.

How would it at all benefit women over the status quo?

They'd be hit on less, because men wouldn't have to always be the ones to make a move.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#524

Post by Yizahi »

The problem is now he(she) won't be able to "stop" this at all. The cat is out of the bag, humans accepted a new niche and moved into it. Would banning app or stats make app authors "forget" their already existing data? Of course not. Also this already public data will be a basis of this app for many years in the future, even if zero new data is available. Because courses and gender rates doesn't change a lot or quickly. Lawsuits against uni are completely pointless, maybe only as a punishment (debatable due to a disparity in power of single prof and whole uni).

The only real solution is now to adapt the course itself, change auditioning rules, change program, have more individual approach to intercept predatory help etc. Basically a ton of more work from the teacher. Unfortunately.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#525

Post by IncRnd »

throway33 wrote: post #517
IncRnd wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't interpret. The parent comment used the word mate. The word leer refers to the leching that was discused in the article. The article says, "a number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place". Lech and leer are semantically related words. [1] [1] https://thesaurus.plus/related/leer/lech_after

> The parent comment used the word mate. Yes, but not in the context of calling their "prospective cuddlybear" a mate.

It was the exact same context, a commenter on HN lamenting the difficulty for 80% of men to meet a women, unless one is aggressive, made as a comment in an article about a group of older-year, leching males. You are interpreting that to mean "find a life partner".

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#526

Post by Tozen »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #309
fastball wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to spend more time with women is misogynistic? I don't want to whip out the dictionary definition of that word, but in what way does choosing classes to spend more time with women (because your existing classes are full of guys) mean you hate women ?

If you are someone who genuinely enjoys the company of women over the company of men, then I agree that it is not misogynistic. But that isn't really what we are talking about. The average hypothetical man choosing his class or major because of how many women are in it isn't looking to make female friends. He just wants to surround himself with a higher percentage of people that he is sexually attracted to.

> He just wants to surround himself with a higher percentage of people that he is sexually attracted to.

This statement comes across as a bit misandric, but in way in which it appears not to be realized. It's demonizing males who are attracted to the opposite sex, which is natural biology, and as if men shouldn't be allowed to freely associate with other adults of the opposite sex.

On the flip, I don't see women being demonized for wanting to be around a higher percentage of people she is sexually attracted to. Be it males or other females. To include if she chose a class or major with higher prospects for meeting the opposite sex, dating, or for greater marriage prospects.

> The average hypothetical man choosing his class or major because of how many women are in it isn't looking to make female friends.

Again, the casual male demonization and vilification, is both sad and amazing. Few people would come to the conclusion that a woman choosing her class or major based on greater opportunities with the opposite or same sex, would find that to be nefarious by default.

> If you are someone who genuinely enjoys the company of women over the company of men, then I agree that it is not misogynistic.

The later statements contradict this statement. It also appears that for a male to genuinely enjoy the company of women is something weird or odd. Why can't an adult prefer to be around other adults that they want to associate with. There are many women that state they prefer male friends to female friends. That's their preference or personality, nothing nefarious should be read into it, without evidence.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#527

Post by tarsinge »

Gigachad wrote: post #473
kcb wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness I find that most people that say this only attempt to match with people in the top X% of attractiveness.

The real source behind this statement was that Ok Cupid once published a blog post with some analysis of their data. They found that the average man on the platform was rated as bellow average attractiveness by woman while the average woman was ranked as average attractiveness by men. There were some more related stats in the same post. This of course exploded and they deleted the post.

This one?[0] It's funny it's always cited with the reversed finding: while men were more fair in rating attractiveness, they then only target the top most attractive females, completely oblivious of where they stand. OTOH women were more harsh in rating but they are then able to shift their expectation to realistic ones. By these data dating only works if you are in the top X% of attractiveness if you are a woman, but it works better for the average man.

[0]https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#528

Post by zozbot234 »

lelanthran wrote: post #510
Tozen wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: Changed above, as can't reply to the below, as being restricted/censored. > The young men have certain goals (like attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend), and trivialising their goals because the poster thinks they should have loftier goals (attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend of "better"[1] quality) is pointless and stupid. We are in agreement on this point. I re-read the post and the one you were responding t…

> Why demonize these young men? It looks like you are injecting your beliefs about them, which is not backed by evidence. And not seeing how it's "wrong" for men to choose who they find attractive, want to associate with, or invest time into. Are men not suppose to have options, but only women are? I'm not demonizing the males involved. I'm not saying anything about my beliefs. I'm not saying it is wrong that they fi…

FWIW, I never said anything about "quality" of women; the implication that attractive women might be less than "sensible" is your own doing, and I disagree with it. I'm only assuming that these guys would also want to attract or favorably impress these women somehow; if so, what they are doing is not really helpful or conducive to that goal.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#529

Post by Tozen »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #376
notinfuriated wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that being sexually attracted to women is misogynistic? I assume you're not saying that, but you're not explaining why this behavior is misogynistic. At best, you might mean that if a man is sexually attracted to women, and he seeks out the company of women, then he must believe that women are sexual objects made strictly for his personal pleasure. Is that what you're trying to say?

> you might mean that if a man is sexually attracted to women, and he seeks out the company of women, then he must believe that women are sexual objects made strictly for his personal pleasure. I am sort of saying this but not as tautologically as you are stating it. I am saying that generally , when someone chooses a class or major because of the high percentage of people taking it that said person is sexually attra…

> I am saying that generally, when someone chooses a class or major because of the high percentage of people taking it that said person is sexually attracted to, said person is probably objectifying those people. Said person is probably not interested in friendships with those people or with the personality of those people.

It comes across that you are demonizing natural and biological sexual attraction between the opposite sexes, and categorizing it as objectification and bad. Then there is oddly separating the possibility of friendship or having an interest in people beyond sexual attraction, as if this is not possible. To include, based on previous statements, these are probably misandric beliefs directed towards men in general.

There is nothing wrong with being physically attracted to the opposite sex, and it's also possible to form friendships or be attracted to other aspects about them. A man can think of a woman as both physically attractive and intelligent. A woman can look at a man as both attractive and possessing a nice personality.

And whatever are the attributes that attract one person to another, that is their right. It is not for a 3rd party to decide what two people find attractive between them. If they want only the purest of friendships or only completely sexual relationships, that is their prerogative. Of which, we usually can't truly know, because both men and women can lie. Only when the line is crossed towards actual violations of written legal policies, violations of human rights, or criminal behavior that it should become the concern of 3rd parties.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#530

Post by lelanthran »

zozbot234 wrote: post #528
lelanthran wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why demonize these young men? It looks like you are injecting your beliefs about them, which is not backed by evidence. And not seeing how it's "wrong" for men to choose who they find attractive, want to associate with, or invest time into. Are men not suppose to have options, but only women are? I'm not demonizing the males involved. I'm not saying anything about my beliefs. I'm not saying it is wrong that they fi…

FWIW, I never said anything about "quality" of women; the implication that attractive women might be less than "sensible" is your own doing, and I disagree with it. I'm only assuming that these guys would also want to attract or favorably impress these women somehow; if so, what they are doing is not really helpful or conducive to that goal.

> I'm only assuming that these guys would also want to attract or favorably impress these [sensible] women somehow; if so, what they are doing is not really helpful or conducive to that goal.

That's a very big IF. Their goal seems to be to attract an (or more) attractive woman(women). There is no indication that your assumption is in any way correct, and I've no idea why one would assume this.

Your post came off as dismissing their goal of attracting a mate. I just reread it, and it still reads like "If they want to get the CORRECT girls, they're doing it wrong."

What you consider to be "correct" or even "sensible" is completely subjective.

Their criteria is obviously not to get girls that is "correct" under your definition, it's to get girls that are "correct" under their own definition.

If they simply want to impress girls enough to get them to agree to a date, then what they are doing actually is "helpful or conducive to that goal".

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