Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

academia.stackexchange.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 659 posts

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#501

Post by charcircuit »

heavyset_go wrote: post #481
ShredKazoo wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your definition of "predatory intent"? If a woman signs up for eHarmony with the intent to find a husband, is that "predatory intent"? Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation? Suppose a woman wears makeup in order to appear more youthful and beautiful than she really is. Is that fabrication/manipulation? If she success…

Ted Bundy wasn't signing up for a dating service to find a spouse, he was fabricating situations and preying on women's sympathy to deceive and kidnap them. That's predatory intent. > Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation? Suppose one of Bundy's potential victims asks him what he's doing, and he goes, "Well, I'm just preten…

There is nothing wrong with pretending to have trouble to talk to meet or talk to women. It's just a conversation starter. If you want to meet new females you will need to come up with some strategy to improve your odds of finding one. Else you will be alone forever.

It crosses the line when it becomes abduction.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#502

Post by ndriscoll »

greggarious wrote: post #342
nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

I think one people miss is that lack of interaction can be a form of harassment. >we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "private free tutoring sessions", etc). Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attracti…

It sounds like everyone in the class can clearly see what's going on, which means there's probably not a lot of "tutoring" going on in these 1:1 sessions. So no need for the other girls to worry much about that. That said, even if they were I'm not seeing the problem. If two people start dating is one not allowed to help the other with homework now because it's "unfair" to single people? I helped my wife (then girlfriend) with her work in college. In fact I helped her in her 1 semester general optics course in the physics department when one of my majors was optical science, so almost the exact same situation (though we met in a math class). Should I have offered to help her classmates too? Does it make a difference that she's older than me? Or that the other students didn't know I was giving her 1:1 attention?

I get that rejection is demoralizing. Probably almost any man understands that. But we can't exactly expect people to prioritize fairness to everyone in their personal relationships, nor does it make sense to ban students from seeking those relationships.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#503

Post by Tozen »

nhchris wrote: post #292
jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting? It seems everyone is complaining except the girls getting tutored. And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy - that they're attending a class for the sake of dat…

> Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what.

This is simple reality, but it seems certain people want to reject it. As if the less attractive women should be forcibly provided special access to the more attractive or top percentage of men.

> It seems everyone is complaining except the girls (college women) getting tutored.

I also find this quite strange. It's as if the college women tutored are denied agency and are children of the school. Like these guys are not talking to adult women who can choose their actions, but rather the teacher of the class and school administration control these women and mandate dating access to them.

> And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy...

Again, you are noticing the same thing. Not seeing why any actual complaints can't be handled on its merits, based on the individual it happened to. What the hell is going on that the teacher feels she should control the "dating privileges" of her female students and be empowered to block male heterosexual student access to her class.

I find the behavior and intended actions of the teacher in question very strange. It's as if she wants to run a "pre-crime" unit, where the male students are already guilty, and her female students need to ask for her permission for who they can or can't date.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#504

Post by deely3 »

ausbah wrote: post #486
quickthrower2 wrote: post #255

Unsettled how many HN readers think this is OK. Please think deeply about this situation, using your systems thinking, to see why this is a really bad trend. It is kind of worse than a single guy joining a yoga class for the same reasons. This is a conspiracy to get lots of men to interfere with the education and success of women to get a date or sex.

"guys being guys", "people find their partners in college so it's ok!", "men are the real victims so they're justified / understandable", "nothing is wrong so long as it's not sexual assault". grossest comment section i've seen on this site in forever

Citing article:

> there are no unwanted advances

Could you explain, what exactly is wrong with it?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#505

Post by satisfice »

Nobody promised you a rose garden. Life is not fair. Boys will be boys. These phrases became cliches because they are true.

The problem will not go on forever, because the men will become bored with it. Unless, of course, their plan is working. In which case, your issue is that you can’t stand the realness of reality.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#506

Post by Tozen »

ndriscoll wrote: post #469
elil17 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.

My wife told me when we started dating that she picked math in university to find a STEM boy (who was expected to get a high paying job. No math grad school for me). And yes, I helped her with her homework and with studying only because I was attracted to her and dating her. We're both happy with how that turned out. Honestly assuming we send our kids to college (it's looking like a house and a trust fund will be che…

> My wife told me when we started dating that she picked math in university to find a STEM boy (who was expected to get a high paying job.

The situation that we are dealing with in many societies, is the attempted demonization of heterosexual males by certain groups, which ends up being destructive and a net loss.

That a woman would purposely choose to pick a class to find "better dating options" is fine or even a woman's privilege. If a heterosexual male does so, then it's distorted into being a type of crime or abuse, that certain elements feel it demands punitive school administrative actions or to be criminalized

> It is probably the best opportunity for one of the most important events to set the course of your life.

Not only have many known this for a long time, that college is often the best time and place to find a husband, but statistics bear this out. Many highly educated women who have got married, found their husband during college. When they don't, many regretted it and had severe struggles later on, or the clock ended up running out on their fertility and dating prospects.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#507

Post by I-love-india »

nhchris wrote: post #136
I-love-india wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying…

You've assumed a great deal more about their behavior than was written. The professor even states "no unwanted advances are taking place", contradicting your characterization. Indeed, your extra assumptions would qualify as 'disruption', and I imagine the professor would be well within her rights to expel such students. But merely offering, not pushing, assistance, or even less "showboating", letting students in sear…

> You've assumed a great deal more about their behavior than was written. The professor even states "no unwanted advances are taking place", contradicting your characterization

where did I say anything about unwanted advances?

> We've really come to a point where even the purest romantic intentions (the post talks of wife material, not one night stands) are "disrespectful", have we?

that's not what was said. read again. The romantic intention is fine and human, what's at point here is when its totally lacking empathy or any sense of the other person.

You want to know what's romantic?

Respect. Caring about another. Understanding. Doing selfless actions to support another (including by consciously doing nothing because it may be disruptive).

Or do you want to be just like all the other bros who think there's a "trick" and you kinda like have to 'do A, B + C' then you "get" someone? That's a creep who see's women as some sort of prize.

EDIT: I don't know what you've assumed about this post but I'm a guy. If you are actually interested in someone for who they are, try to do good stuff and try not to do bad stuff and respectful you won't have much trouble. Just trying to be a decent human is a universal turn on.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#508

Post by soerxpso »

saghm wrote: post #180
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #13

I still have clear recollection of the 50:1 men-to-women ratio in my CS2xx classes and higher. Your odds weren't good if you were hoping to meet Mrs. Right. I imagine things have gotten better since. Still, seems like a fairly high effort low outcome place to meet someone who is likely not even receptive to advances in that context. Do colleges not offer many other opportunities for people to meet outside of class in…

> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date. Yikes. I think the bigger "yikes" to me is the implication that being young, male, and lusty as a motivation is a sufficient to dismiss any possibility of illicit behavior.

Where's the illicit behavior? The only accusation being made is that the men are lusty and perhaps socially awkward. There have been no sexual harassment complaints. What it looks like to me is that being young, male and lusty somehow now carries an assumption of illicit behavior, even with a complete lack of any evidence thereof.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#510

Post by lelanthran »

Tozen wrote: post #499
lelanthran wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The male auditors are overdoing the whole showboating thing in a way that creates a bad experience for the rest of the students, and probably doesn't really help their romantic prospects either. Sensible women want to get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion and perhaps be a little wowed in non-obvious ways. They aren't looking for sensible women, they're looking for attractive women. IOW, it furthers thei…

Edit: Changed above, as can't reply to the below, as being restricted/censored. > The young men have certain goals (like attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend), and trivialising their goals because the poster thinks they should have loftier goals (attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend of "better"[1] quality) is pointless and stupid. We are in agreement on this point. I re-read the post and the one you were responding t…

> Why demonize these young men? It looks like you are injecting your beliefs about them, which is not backed by evidence. And not seeing how it's "wrong" for men to choose who they find attractive, want to associate with, or invest time into. Are men not suppose to have options, but only women are?

I'm not demonizing the males involved. I'm not saying anything about my beliefs. I'm not saying it is wrong that they find certain females attractive, or that there is wrong about anything with their choices.

I am saying that the judgements being passed on by the poster are invalid, because the poster's implication (i.e. the women who fall for this are not quality women anyway) is irrelevant.

The young men have certain goals (like attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend), and trivialising their goals because the poster thinks they should have loftier goals (attracting a mate/partner/girlfriend of "better"[1] quality) is pointless and stupid.

IOW, you and I are making the same general argument in this thread, but on the particular comment upthread I was only addressing that poster's implication that the males are doing something wrong (because that poster feels that the males should have the same criteria for "quality partner" as that poster has).

[1] Completely and totally subjective.

Post reply on HN