Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service • Hacker News Board

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#481

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:36 AM UTC

ShredKazoo wrote: post #476

heavyset_go wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn't that it's "immoral" to have any sort of difficulty in a public place that women might offer help for, it's the predatory intent and behavior, and the fabrication/manipulation of situations in order to manipulate others. That predatory behavior and manipulation also betrays a good faith interpretation of consent. Consent isn't realized through trickery and technicalities. If someone believes that preda…

What's your definition of "predatory intent"? If a woman signs up for eHarmony with the intent to find a husband, is that "predatory intent"? Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation? Suppose a woman wears makeup in order to appear more youthful and beautiful than she really is. Is that fabrication/manipulation? If she success…

Ted Bundy wasn't signing up for a dating service to find a spouse, he was fabricating situations and preying on women's sympathy to deceive and kidnap them. That's predatory intent.

> Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation?

Suppose one of Bundy's potential victims asks him what he's doing, and he goes, "Well, I'm just pretending to have trouble in order to get close enough to kidnap you!" Is that still predatory and does it affect his intent?

> Suppose a woman wears makeup in order to appear more youthful and beautiful than she really is. Is that fabrication/manipulation? If she successfully seduces a man into sleeping with her as a result of her makeup, is that a consent violation?

Surely you can see the difference between taking care of yourself and preying upon people. There's nothing deceptive about looking good. If they're out there catfishing people to sleep with them, however, that is predatory, but that is not what you're describing.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#482

Post by ausbah » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:42 AM UTC

sacnoradhq wrote: post #407

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

There's a widespread lack of male role models, absentee fathers, and anything and everything male bashing. The ladies could be mentioning to the guys specific constructive feedback, because the guys probably don't know how they're failing or how they're making others feel. The surprising and shocking secret of being a ladies' man, is underwhelming and doesn't get press: being human and treating others as human accord…

why does it fall on the person being made uncomfortable to correct the behavior of the being making them uncomfortable?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#483

Post by britch » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:43 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #316

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These other students hold no power A key point is that these students do have power because they already know the coursework. That is the whole reason that they chose these specific classes.

That's a pretty weak hand really. It's not like they're in competition with the other students. They're also offering to help pass on that knowledge in exchange for attention from women. That's not a power move.

The post describes students "teaching" labs as though they are TA's.

How is that not an attempt to take a position of power?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#484

Post by midoridensha » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:46 AM UTC

atyppo wrote: post #306

Larrikin wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My upper level CS classes in college had one woman back in early 2010s. I entered grad school some years later. My graduate level CS courses that over lapped the data science classes were usually around fifty percent. The courses that didn't were more male but nothing close to undergraduate. It really wasn't something I noticed like in undergrad. So seems to be getting better What I did notice was both the data scien…

America's immigration system is in desperate need of reform. The green card "diversity" lottery is stupid and outright discriminatory. I've considered emigrating from the US to some EU members, and while it isn't easy for any of these countries, it certainly is nowhere near as difficult as if I were doing the reverse. Will it ever be fixed in my lifetime? I'm 22. I have my doubts.

If America really wanted to reform its immigration system, it would have by now. Half the people in America want much less immigration; they said so loud and clear when they elected Trump. These voters don't want people with masters degrees in STEM, or anyone else really; they think people with masters degrees are going to take their jobs at Walmart.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#485

Post by throway33 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:49 AM UTC

ofcourseyoudo wrote: post #440

throway33 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you happen to be an intelligent and decent young man from a male-dominated major who legitimately likes helping others who are struggling to learn the subject you're passionate about, how would women in your dating pool, who find those personality traits attractive, discover those things about you?

Maybe they would notice you help whoever asks for it, not just attractive women, and by contrast they would think, "Hey, he seems decent, not like those creeps that only have tutoring sessions for hotties."

Of course, that's a given. But how would this happen, if you aren't even there to begin with?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#486

Post by ausbah » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:55 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #255

Unsettled how many HN readers think this is OK. Please think deeply about this situation, using your systems thinking, to see why this is a really bad trend. It is kind of worse than a single guy joining a yoga class for the same reasons. This is a conspiracy to get lots of men to interfere with the education and success of women to get a date or sex.

"guys being guys", "people find their partners in college so it's ok!", "men are the real victims so they're justified / understandable", "nothing is wrong so long as it's not sexual assault". grossest comment section i've seen on this site in forever

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#487

Post by ShredKazoo » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 7:00 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #481

ShredKazoo wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your definition of "predatory intent"? If a woman signs up for eHarmony with the intent to find a husband, is that "predatory intent"? Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation? Suppose a woman wears makeup in order to appear more youthful and beautiful than she really is. Is that fabrication/manipulation? If she success…

Ted Bundy wasn't signing up for a dating service to find a spouse, he was fabricating situations and preying on women's sympathy to deceive and kidnap them. That's predatory intent. > Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation? Suppose one of Bundy's potential victims asks him what he's doing, and he goes, "Well, I'm just preten…

>Ted Bundy wasn't signing up for a dating service to find a spouse, he was fabricating situations and preying on women's sympathy to deceive and kidnap them. That's predatory intent.

I agree if you want to kidnap someone, you're a predator.

>Suppose one of Bundy's potential victims asks him what he's doing, and he goes, "Well, I'm just pretending to have trouble in order to get close enough to kidnap you!" Is that still predatory and does it affect his intent?

The key thing that makes Bundy a predator is wanting to kidnap someone. If someone did the exact same thing with the intention of meeting their future spouse instead of forcibly kidnapping someone, they're not a predator, barring extenuating circumstances.

For example, the other day in the store a woman dropped something near me, while I was squatting on the floor. I picked it up and gave it to her. Afterwards, I realized that she'd been looking at me prior to dropping the object, and it occurred to me that maybe she was trying to get me to talk to her (out of all the places in the store, she somehow dropped her thing right next to me, and also waited for me to pick it up instead of bending over herself).

I don't have any particular reason to believe she's a predator based on that interaction, even if she dropped the item intentionally.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. It seems like you're using a wild analogy with Ted Bundy to demonize harmless flirtation of the sort you'd find in a romantic comedy.

>There's nothing deceptive about looking good.

Let's change the scenario -- suppose she deliberately makes her makeup look natural, and when someone asks if she's wearing makeup, she lies and says no. What do you call that?

Because it seems about as bad to me as a man who does as described in the OP, and when asked why he's in the class, says something like "yeah I like helping people, I don't know!" In both cases you're doing something to attract people you're interested in and telling a white lie related to it.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#488

Post by piva00 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 7:03 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #305

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #13

I still have clear recollection of the 50:1 men-to-women ratio in my CS2xx classes and higher. Your odds weren't good if you were hoping to meet Mrs. Right. I imagine things have gotten better since. Still, seems like a fairly high effort low outcome place to meet someone who is likely not even receptive to advances in that context. Do colleges not offer many other opportunities for people to meet outside of class in…

> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date College students aren’t “kids” and it’s extremely disturbing that our society continues to infantilize teenagers and grownups and push the boundary of adulthood later and later. In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men…

> In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men happens at 13.

What does this have to do with anything in the modern age? Girls being up for grabs after their first period was also a tradition of coming of age, it doesn't mean anything about a kid's maturity...

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#489

Post by fzeroracer » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 7:07 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #255

Unsettled how many HN readers think this is OK. Please think deeply about this situation, using your systems thinking, to see why this is a really bad trend. It is kind of worse than a single guy joining a yoga class for the same reasons. This is a conspiracy to get lots of men to interfere with the education and success of women to get a date or sex.

This story, even if it's a fake, is a great litmus test for how many engineers are creeps and continue to justify creepy behavior for the most absurd of reasons.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#490

Post by Dalewyn » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 7:12 AM UTC

pedroma wrote: post #326

Dalewyn wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me clarify: You don't pork out during your academic day; you get acquainted during the day to get the ball rolling, and then proceed with the porking once you've punched out and are now spending your private time.

I don't see why this matters. Two people like each other? Why does it matter where it's happening or what the context is? It's probably more natural and humanizing to treat people like humans instead of objects you cannot have feelings for too.

>Why does it matter where it's happening or what the context is?

If it disturbs the surrounding environment (eg: inhibits work to be done, disrupts classes to be held, etc.), yes it does matter where and how it happens.

A love life is a strictly private affair; if it intrudes into professional, academic, or otherwise not-private time then you are doing it wrong.