Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service • Hacker News Board

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#471

Post by klyrs » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:08 AM UTC

sugarpile wrote: post #461

klyrs wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Why not hire based on attractiveness and promote based on blowjobs? This is reality and how the world works. ... alternatively, we could strive to make the world a better place.

That’s perfectly fine, imo? There’s clearly a disadvantage to not having any meritocratic considerations during the hiring process and it will eventually come back to bite the hiring company. That said, everyone has free will and should be completely free to hire whomever they want for whatever reasons they want.

Nah, we have laws to protect us from people like you. Society is better off, whether or not you can see that.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#472

Post by ImaCake » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:10 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #466

murrkat wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there not a chance one of the young men offering open labs or tutoring might, in fact, be intelligent, enthusiastic about the sciences and decent ?

I think it's a conflict of interest if someone is teaching/tutoring so they can sleep with their students, and that approach can result in unfortunate incentives for the tutor at the expense of their students.

It's enough of an issue that tutors and lecturers who sleep with students will often be booted from the University. There are official rules at most unis, and more importantly, they are actually enforced even for high ranking researchers (eventually...).

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#473

Post by Gigachad » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:13 AM UTC

kcb wrote: post #341

fragmede wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are, in fact, decent, and find going to frat parties to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent, or hiring a prostitute, to be reprehensible. Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness, so what's a college student to do? They're not generally rich enough to garner the attention of women that way, and they're competing against a larg pool of older men who are .

> Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness I find that most people that say this only attempt to match with people in the top X% of attractiveness.

The real source behind this statement was that Ok Cupid once published a blog post with some analysis of their data. They found that the average man on the platform was rated as bellow average attractiveness by woman while the average woman was ranked as average attractiveness by men. There were some more related stats in the same post.

This of course exploded and they deleted the post.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#474

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:13 AM UTC

ShredKazoo wrote: post #413

areoform wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes deeper than that. It's predatory. And it can go from being harmless to SA really fast if you're on the receiving end. If you are a SA, or a CSA, survivor, then this is the kind of behavior that gives you nightmares. I know, because it gives me nightmares. And it's brought up in almost every support group I've been a part of. Their behavior is identical to someone who profiles a victim type, seeks opportunitie…

I'm sorry this behavior gives you nightmares. I don't find this line of argument compelling though. For example, your Bundy argument appears to imply that it is immoral to have any sort of difficulty in a public place that might cause a woman to come offer help to you. This seems like a fairly absurd, possibly ableist moral guideline? The reductio ad absurdum of this reasoning is: "Abusers breathe oxygen, if you brea…

The issue isn't that it's "immoral" to have any sort of difficulty in a public place that women might offer help for, it's the predatory intent and behavior, and the fabrication/manipulation of situations in order to manipulate others.

That predatory behavior and manipulation also betrays a good faith interpretation of consent. Consent isn't realized through trickery and technicalities.

If someone believes that predatory behavior and manipulation are okay, especially when it comes to dating, sex or consent, that is definitely someone that a SA/CSA survivor should be wary of, because those are the beliefs and attitudes that perpetuate such abuse.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#475

Post by threatofrain » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:16 AM UTC

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Some people choose universities on its reputation for sex, partying, and drugs!

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#476

Post by ShredKazoo » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:17 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #474

ShredKazoo wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry this behavior gives you nightmares. I don't find this line of argument compelling though. For example, your Bundy argument appears to imply that it is immoral to have any sort of difficulty in a public place that might cause a woman to come offer help to you. This seems like a fairly absurd, possibly ableist moral guideline? The reductio ad absurdum of this reasoning is: "Abusers breathe oxygen, if you brea…

The issue isn't that it's "immoral" to have any sort of difficulty in a public place that women might offer help for, it's the predatory intent and behavior, and the fabrication/manipulation of situations in order to manipulate others. That predatory behavior and manipulation also betrays a good faith interpretation of consent. Consent isn't realized through trickery and technicalities. If someone believes that preda…

What's your definition of "predatory intent"? If a woman signs up for eHarmony with the intent to find a husband, is that "predatory intent"?

Suppose a man does as described in OP and if anyone asks him what he's doing, he responds honestly. Is that fabrication/manipulation?

Suppose a woman wears makeup in order to appear more youthful and beautiful than she really is. Is that fabrication/manipulation? If she successfully seduces a man into sleeping with her as a result of her makeup, is that a consent violation?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#477

Post by Gigachad » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:23 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #467

boppo1 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Learning to treat women with proper respect and still come across as attractive to them The unfortunate thing is that not only is this totally opaque, but society actually gives instruction that doesn't work, i.e. bad advice. That's how we get 'nice guys' and pickup artists. Young men have an overwhelming need for intimacy that they're driven to satisfy and there. are. no. guides. on how to obtain it. I do pretty ok…

I might agree that the situation 20 years ago was this bad; but things have changed quite a bit. We now know a whole lot more as to how women generally relate to this sex and relationships thing - because they've been telling us first-hand! We have not exactly come to a general realization throughout society that there is such a thing as behaving and relating to others in a more attractive way, but we're not far from…

There are different types of nice guys. One group is the one that has been told to "be nice, and respectful" and tries to do that but goes over the top to the point of simping and being creepy in a hard to describe way.

They aren't trying to be creepy, they are just misguided and lost.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#478

Post by Gigachad » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:26 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #321

elil17 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.

The subtext here is that women should be able to exist in the world without "unwanted" sexual attention being given towards them. The question is whether this is reasonable. Should men not seek dates? Should men not go where single women are to seek dates? Should men limit their efforts at getting dates only to "appropriate venues", where women's interest is explicit? How does the man's attractiveness factor into the…

There is also no real way to signal interest in being approached. Personally I wear a rainbow watch band in an attempt to signal this but I'm not aware of any typical way a straight person signals interest without being somewhat outgoing and making the first move which seems to be deeply disturbing to the commenters here.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#479

Post by thaumasiotes » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

ofcourseyoudo wrote: post #443

A lot of questionable defenses in these comments hinging on this phrase from the piece: "no unwanted advances". Keep in mind this is through the professor's viewpoint. I would love some direct testimony from the women students to see if they truly have received ZERO unwanted advances. I find that highly unlikely given that the piece also states that several of them have been demoralized by all of this.

> I find that highly unlikely given that the piece also states that several of them have been demoralized by all of this.

The piece specifically states that some women have been demoralized by the fact that they aren't receiving advances. Obviously, that is the opposite of making an unwanted advance.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#480

Post by Bancakes » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #376

notinfuriated wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that being sexually attracted to women is misogynistic? I assume you're not saying that, but you're not explaining why this behavior is misogynistic. At best, you might mean that if a man is sexually attracted to women, and he seeks out the company of women, then he must believe that women are sexual objects made strictly for his personal pleasure. Is that what you're trying to say?

> you might mean that if a man is sexually attracted to women, and he seeks out the company of women, then he must believe that women are sexual objects made strictly for his personal pleasure. I am sort of saying this but not as tautologically as you are stating it. I am saying that generally , when someone chooses a class or major because of the high percentage of people taking it that said person is sexually attra…

Sex is not objectification, it’s a natural need. It’s an entirely different point to argue that a friendship between a man and a woman with zero (0) sexual interest, does not exist.

What is this modern style thinking that sex is bad? Sex is a tool for love making.