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How likely is losing a Google account?

jefftk.com

261–270 of 305 posts

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#261
post #12
post #2

Okay, so it's not very likely. What made me transition away from Google/Gmail as my identity provider was pondering the question: How screwed am I if I get locked out of my Google account? The answer: Well, if you're on Hacker News, you may have a chance of reaching a human. But if you broke a policy, good luck. I'm paying $5/mo. for that to not be that screwed. (I have family who got locked out. It does happen.)

> I'm paying $5/mo. for that to not be that screwed (I have family who got locked out. It does happen.) But the article precisely addresses that: For example, in HN discussions people will often recommend Fastmail or Protonmail, but they've had their problems too (FM: 2017, 2020, 2022, PM: 2018, 2019, 2021). Especially given that these are much smaller services I'm not convinced that the risk is lower there. Any syst…

If I lose access to my Fastmail and they won’t let me back in, I still own my domain name. If my DNS provider blocks me, I’ll change the DNS provider. My main email domain is a ccTLD with a pretty reliable registrar who requires national ID 2FA. Things can still go wrong, but I have control at so many levels compared to having a free email at someone else’s domain.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#262
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I dont think it's surprising that they make trade-offs to support that model. Just think of how many support staff you'd need to support 1.5 billion users! Google has a shitload of money, they can afford hiring enough staff. Cost is a lame excuse here.

Someone made a good point a few months ago: if you can’t afford to support your users, you have a broken business model.

They can afford to not support their free users.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#263
Don't use single platform sign ons. I used Twitter login for several online services and when my Twitter account got banned for arguing with covidiots it locked me out of all the accounts I used to use Twitter's sign on for. It took 3 months of appeals to get my Twitter account restored so that I could then access the other services. Never again! Don't make my mistake. Use individual account logins with their own passwords so that getting locked out doesn't take everything else with it.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#264
post #134
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a bit absurd that something so fundamental as email has essentially no support from a company as large as Google; it's not a bug-free product. I'd be willing to bet that gmail has a couple of orders of magnitude more users than fastmail while also providing a substantially bigger inbox (than the cheapest fastmail option), and providing the whole thing for free. I dont think it's surprising that they make trade…

>> I dont think it's surprising that they make trade-offs to support that model. Just think of how many support staff you'd need to support 1.5 billion users! Google has a shitload of money, they can afford hiring enough staff. Cost is a lame excuse here.

Not really. It sounds like you don't have a sense of how much it costs to hire people, how many people are needed to provide oncall support, and the scaling cost of managing and training people.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#265

Chargebacks can get your Google account locked. If you have a dispute with Google and protect yourself by reversing a credit card charge, Google might lock you entirely out of your account. The Google Pixel subreddit has a bunch of people's stories about that: https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/search/?q=chargeback Not sure if this counts as "policy reason" for the article's purposes; he sort of dismisses payment d…

Is there any company that won't blacklist you if you do a chargeback? As far as I know, this "criticism" applies to every company in existence.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#266
As a research methodology, this article ... leaves much to be desired:

To get a sense of how common lockouts are and how they happen I looked through lockout reports on Hacker News by searching for [google blocked account] and [google locked out]. I looked at top-level stories and the comments on them for cases where people were entirely locked out of an account...

If the goal is to determine some noted classes of account lock-out, then this method might have some merits. It utterly fails however to satisfy answering the headline question itself, that is "how likely is losing a Google account?"

For that case ... you'd need to have some insights into overall Google account creation and destruction, as well as some way of validating outside of Google's own accounts-adjudication process both how and why accounts were locked.

I've had some very rough connection with this by way of looking into statistics concerning Google+ over the years. Given that for a substantial portion of its life, Google were creating accounts on its little-lamented social service for every Google account (Gmail, YouTube, and most especially Android), there were a lot of accounts. About 2.2 billion when I ran the numbers, hitting a high-water mark of about 3--4 billion accounts.

(Again, not active users, for the most part, but registered users.)

I'd measured members and a few other characteristics both in 2015, when the site was still fairly vibrant, and in 2018/2019 after its shutdown was announced.

Among other observations, I noticed that highly active members were among the most likely to not have a valid account when checked later. In particular, I'd found a list of popular profiles and Communities, and found that a large fraction of these were no longer visible at all on the system. That is, one of the highest signifiers for "account will not exist in future" is "account is presently highly active".

I've speculated as to why this is, though I don't know what the specific mechanisms were. Among the options, comparing highly active accounts with little-used or unused ones:

- Highly-active accounts are more likely to cross some red line or trip some automated, or crowdsourced, flagging mechanism.

- Highly-active members are more likely to become discouraged with the platform itself. (That was certainly my own experience, though I never fully deleted my account.)

As to the question raised by TFA: I've been locked out of several Google accounts, though I've succeeded in recovering the ones I cared about. As a result of those events, however, I've also all but entirely curtailed my use of any authenticated Google services.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#267

A popular reviewer in the headphone/IEM audiophile community, Crinacle, had lost his Google account in early 2022, and thus his 100k+ subscriber Youtube channel. It was locked, with no explanation, and no recourse other than an appeal (that went unanswered afaik). Curiously, his old Youtube channel stayed up for most of the year, he just couldn't access it, but it was removed too late last year. He created a new acco…

This is the biggest issue. It's not a loss of a single service, but multiple services that are all linked to that account. It's bad enough when it's all of your Google or Microsoft or Apple services, but it's going to get worse. I'm convinced the whole passwordless movement isn't much more than a strategy for big tech to completely usurp control of identity. People on Hacker News might not get trapped because they un…

Consolidated identity and delegated authentication isn’t a conspiracy, it’s a customer driven and infosec driven feature. Managing your own passwords across sites and devices is widely considered to be a security failure with easily guessed reused passwords written in sticky notes or a notebook by the computer or in text files / spreadsheets on that computer.

And governments globally are already doing their own SSO services (the UK has had a version of this for 20 years) and some (Canada) are enabling partnerships with what they feel to be more secure sources of identity eg. online banking.

I think the fundamental problem with Google is that their policies are inscrutable. I wouldn’t rely on any one identity provider for everything I either, and would expect all services have a recourse for resetting your login settings when a particular provider no longer works for you.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#268

i bet google could charge 1k/yr and have thousands of paying customer. I would.

By charging nothing, Google have billions of paying customers.

Requiring a charge would permit upstarts to undercut that fee by other means (e.g., advertising, otherwise selling influence, data gathering to compete with Google or other firms in the area of AI, etc., etc.).

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#269

Chargebacks can get your Google account locked. If you have a dispute with Google and protect yourself by reversing a credit card charge, Google might lock you entirely out of your account. The Google Pixel subreddit has a bunch of people's stories about that: https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/search/?q=chargeback Not sure if this counts as "policy reason" for the article's purposes; he sort of dismisses payment d…

> My takeaway was that if I was ever in a dispute over a couple of hundred bucks for Google, I would not risk a chargeback for fear of retaliation. My takeaway from that is to never spend more than a few quid (i.e. money I'd care about losing) on anything linked that directly to Google.

There are stories of Apple locking accounts over chargebacks too. Cutting both of those out would be nice but probably tough for me.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#270
post #108
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any company with a business model that takes your money and gives you service is inherently more secure than one that sells your eyeballs to advertisers in exchange for giving you free stuff. The former companies have a direct incentive to keep giving you service as part of their core business. The latter are really only paying attention to the money they get from advertisers.

"is inherently more secure than one that sells your eyeballs to advertisers in exchange for giving you free stuff. " Not necessarily, and in fact this case I would disagree. I trust Google's security 10x more than that of FastMail. The 'advertising company' reaps in billions of $ with which they can get all sorts of good engineers for 0-day research, exploits, updates. They have a lot more of a reputation to defend.…

> I suggest that Google is probably 'more secure' than FastMail

The overused phrase "more secure" doesn't mean anything without context.

To evaluate the security of anything you first need to identify all the threat models that concern you (and perhaps call out the ones you don't care about). Then evaluate each solution against every threat you identified.

For instance for the threat of the vendor itself sabotaging my access to my account, I'll score FastMail far better then gmail.

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