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How likely is losing a Google account?

jefftk.com

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Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#131

This doesn't mention what I think is the most egregious example of Google account risk - viewers of Markiplier's YouTube live stream getting mass banned. That included access to Gmail accounts from some reporting at the time ( https://gamerant.com/markiplier-stream-ban-lock-users-out-of... ). Combine that with automoderation and you have a recipe for people with no recourse getting hammered. At least when Nick (Train…

I'd never heard of that, but it doesn't appear anyone was banned for viewing a stream.

Rather, accounts were banned because he asked people to vote via comments using just single emojis, and the repetitive emoji comments were classified as spamming, so accounts were blocked for spamming. Once Google recognized the error of over-aggressive spam classification, it reinstated all the accounts. [1]

[1] https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-10-youtube-reinstates-banne...

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) Why in the world would Gmail get shut down? The veins of treasure to be mined from within the user's emails are vast and endless. It is quite simply a mother lode. The only bigger source within their direct control is the search input screen.

It will not go down, but you can get locked out by AI policies. This is likely.

possible and probably are not even close.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#133
Really assessing likelihood is just part of a larger risk assessment how you manage, store, and backup your data It's worth segregating out the risk here into:

- What can easily be backed up and restored (eg. email, calendars), and so loss of access is easy to tolerate

Email, Calendars, etc can generally be dumped pretty easily using LDAP, CalDAV, whatever in a cronjob and saved locally. Drive data can obviously be synced off too. The value here is pretty low and it's pretty easy to do.

- The value of the email address itself (ie. if you need to go change a hundred accounts using it for signing in vs just change the MX record and send to a different provider)

This is the argument for a custom domain that you own with a different register, and have different DNS hosting, so you can keep it segregated and send email anywhere. You could move to Apple, Fastmail, etc with a custom domain pretty quickly.

Some sites will also send you an email to both old and new email and require hitting links you might not have access to if you lost email, or use email for 2FA. eg. Steam using SteamGuard which is all email based. Losing a large Steam library after losing a Gmail account would be horrible.

- The value of other account using federated GSuite sign-in. It's horrible to lose Google, but then also lose all the sites using it.

A strong argument not to use federated accounts and always use email/password (2FA obvs). 1Pass FTW.

None the above advocates for a specific provider, but personally I'm a fan of Fastmail. Not only because it's ad-free and paid for, but also because they advocate for stronger privacy practices, eg. random emails for accounts in partnership with 1Pass. I know you can use + addressing in Gmail but some providers and spammers detect and handle it. Truly random forwarding Ala Apple and Fastmail is better. Although, also, harder to move away from as you can't redirect those. I use Fastmail's domain and user forwarding. eg. service@service.mydomain.com forwards to my personal email.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#134
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take the limited risk. I've had to contact Fastmail support and it was a breath of fresh air. It's a bit absurd that something so fundamental as email has essentially no support from a company as large as Google; it's not a bug-free product. I suppose eliminating humans is a security win, but HN is full of stories of AI systems failing and banning accounts for essentially nothing. Not having a human to appeal to…

> It's a bit absurd that something so fundamental as email has essentially no support from a company as large as Google; it's not a bug-free product. I'd be willing to bet that gmail has a couple of orders of magnitude more users than fastmail while also providing a substantially bigger inbox (than the cheapest fastmail option), and providing the whole thing for free. I dont think it's surprising that they make trade…

>> I dont think it's surprising that they make trade-offs to support that model. Just think of how many support staff you'd need to support 1.5 billion users!

Google has a shitload of money, they can afford hiring enough staff. Cost is a lame excuse here.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#135

Chargebacks can get your Google account locked. If you have a dispute with Google and protect yourself by reversing a credit card charge, Google might lock you entirely out of your account. The Google Pixel subreddit has a bunch of people's stories about that: https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/search/?q=chargeback Not sure if this counts as "policy reason" for the article's purposes; he sort of dismisses payment d…

It also really needs to be mentioned that Google’s store was (is) absolutely awful for buying gear.

I wanted to buy 2 pixels from them. Put the order in, no news for 7 days, at the exact 7 day mark my order gets cancelled. Tried talking to customer support with no success because there isn’t any.

So I put the order in the second time and the exact same thing happens: after exactly 7 days, my order gets cancelled. I say f’ it and buy from a local dealer, with next day delivery.

A few days after the fact, I try using my credit card for something and my transaction gets denied (I had a -200 euros limit). I call the bank and they tell me that there’s a hold on my account from Google, for the price of both orders (about 1500 euros I think) and they are waiting for the funds so it can clear. My only two options is to talk to Google to cancel the charge (lol) or wait 30 days.

I simply closed my card and got a new one.

A few months later I started getting notifications that transactions on this card are being rejected - someone was trying to buy stuff for 1-3$ with my card but it was closed so they didn’t go through. Since I mostly use virtual cards for online stuff (which Google doesn’t like), and the physical card rarely, there is a really big chance that my credit card number got leaked from Google, but there is no way for me to prove that.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#136

This doesn't mention what I think is the most egregious example of Google account risk - viewers of Markiplier's YouTube live stream getting mass banned. That included access to Gmail accounts from some reporting at the time ( https://gamerant.com/markiplier-stream-ban-lock-users-out-of... ). Combine that with automoderation and you have a recipe for people with no recourse getting hammered. At least when Nick (Train…

I'd never heard of that, but it doesn't appear anyone was banned for viewing a stream. Rather, accounts were banned because he asked people to vote via comments using just single emojis, and the repetitive emoji comments were classified as spamming, so accounts were blocked for spamming. Once Google recognized the error of over-aggressive spam classification, it reinstated all the accounts. [1] [1] https://www.engadg…

Even if those comments had truly been spam, it's horrifying that you can get your whole e-mail address locked simply for spamming in a live stream. Having your Google account locked is tantamount to being locked out of your entire digital life for most people, and the fact that Google doesn't take that seriously would have been criminal negligence in any just world.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#137

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

Good it's a paid product. I had an account with a free email provider openmailbox.org, which closed down. I lost my mail box and, together with it, a valuable domain I bought in 1995.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#138

This doesn't mention what I think is the most egregious example of Google account risk - viewers of Markiplier's YouTube live stream getting mass banned. That included access to Gmail accounts from some reporting at the time ( https://gamerant.com/markiplier-stream-ban-lock-users-out-of... ). Combine that with automoderation and you have a recipe for people with no recourse getting hammered. At least when Nick (Train…

I'd never heard of that, but it doesn't appear anyone was banned for viewing a stream. Rather, accounts were banned because he asked people to vote via comments using just single emojis, and the repetitive emoji comments were classified as spamming, so accounts were blocked for spamming. Once Google recognized the error of over-aggressive spam classification, it reinstated all the accounts. [1] [1] https://www.engadg…

Absolutely correct. What would have happened to those banned accounts had it been a livestreamer with a small number of subscribers and a smaller number of viewers? Would any real human have ever looked at it - and would they have cared or been empowered to do anything?

Obviously proving a negative is a problem, but would anyone be surprised if small bans like that had actually happened and never got fixed? I'd be surprised if they hadn't happened.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#139

This doesn't mention what I think is the most egregious example of Google account risk - viewers of Markiplier's YouTube live stream getting mass banned. That included access to Gmail accounts from some reporting at the time ( https://gamerant.com/markiplier-stream-ban-lock-users-out-of... ). Combine that with automoderation and you have a recipe for people with no recourse getting hammered. At least when Nick (Train…

I'd never heard of that, but it doesn't appear anyone was banned for viewing a stream. Rather, accounts were banned because he asked people to vote via comments using just single emojis, and the repetitive emoji comments were classified as spamming, so accounts were blocked for spamming. Once Google recognized the error of over-aggressive spam classification, it reinstated all the accounts. [1] [1] https://www.engadg…

It still shows it's a good idea to separate your e-mail from your YouTube or whatever account though.

When I still used Gmail I was always worried something like this would get me locked out of everything. I use YouTube much more now that my e-mail is safely stored elsewhere.

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