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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#421

Post by compiler-guy »

braingenious wrote: post #169
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

There has always been a large (or very vocal) part of the HN userbase that’s very anti-union. I can’t say why with certainty, but I suspect it’s the veneration of the idea of the mythical “10x zero to one founder” that single-handedly props up the sky and produces billions of dollars of value for their (equally venerable) VC “partners”. It’s kind of a “temporarily embarrassed b illionaire” phenomenon that I love to w…

Some may be opposed for that reason, but I suspect there are many more reasons than that one.

Other possibilities include the belief that a union would be ineffective. Or corrupt. Or at least unproven. Or would kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Or would immediately be captured by special interests not directly related to employment at big tech.

Which isn’t to say that these concerns are valid, or couldn’t be addressed, or whatever. But they exist

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#422

Post by neves »

kilgnad wrote: post #84
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

On a side note I feel we can take Unionization into the tech world as a start up or an App. Imagine a blind-esque App that just allows everyone participating to vote anonymously for a union. Then AFTER a union is official then leaders and instigators could reveal themselves or maybe there were no leaders or instigators the whole thing was p2p. I feel something as easy and convenient as blind can allow "unions in limb…

Not all the world problems will be solved with an app.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#423

Post by AnEro »

Phlarp wrote: post #157
AnEro wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I subscribe to the 'you are what you eat' view of social media, we are social creatures, and we will always adjust ourselves to fit what we feel is THE group. Any media then makes subconscious biases whether we like it or not. I don't think YCombinator is doing brainwashing us or some crazy conspiracy, more we will conform to this audience's thinking which ultimately is about start-ups and tech company's a…

>I don't think YCombinator is doing brainwashing us or some crazy conspiracy Try posting any kind of substantial critique of a YC company and see what happens to the submission. This site is rather open and shameless about it's manipulation. YC companies get to post job ads that are instantly boosted to the front page and nobody can comment on. They have an official "second chance" queue to force boost posts that did…

Very interesting I didn't know. But still I don't think they are intentionally flagging things that encourage unionization. However, I do think if it is related to their companies the will now that you say that lol

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#424

Post by klipklop »

JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

I know somebody that was in the first round of these layoffs about 6 months ago. This person still has not found another job. It's pretty hard to find a job when everyone has a hiring freeze.

I suspect some of the 40-somethings that are turning a bit gray will have a very hard time finding a new job that paid as well as their FAANG job did. I always feel hackernews greatly overstates how easy it is for folks even working at a "top firm" to finding a new job in this current job market.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#425

Post by monero-xmr »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #252
monero-xmr wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is insanely hard to build a business, and I speak as someone who has built businesses in both tech and franchising (which should theoretically be much more straightforwards). At the primordial stage, before there are reliable revenues, you must have everyone marching to the same drum. If you can’t do what I say, please GTFO because you are actively harming what is already hanging on by a thread. If I can’t fire ba…

You don't have the right to build a business. You have the right to try , of course, but it's not like there's some natural law that you should be able to succeed. So appeals to "it's hanging on by a thread!" don't really do much for me; maybe the viability of your business relies on an imbalance of power vs. your employees, in which case I'd really rather the thread be cut. Your comment about firing people is kinda…

To be clear - IMO any business that is not profitable is hanging by a thread. I invest capital and time in building new entities that I am confident can and will become profitable. I am potentially losing all of my money and time if that doesn't happen, and the vast majority of businesses fail. Creating a successful, sustainable, profitable business is a very difficult (yet rewarding) endeavor that I have had success at in the past. And my point is that anyone who wants to stop me from doing so I need to get rid of ASAP before they put any more of my time and money at risk, and being obligated by the government to keep dead weight around (i.e. unions) is insane, from my perspective as an entrepreneur.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#426

Post by mixmastamyk »

theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

They don't think about "crushing..." they think, "how can I improve my bonus?" Result is the same.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#427

Post by BaseballPhysics »

randomdata wrote: post #196
typon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising though. Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. VCs doing zero labour and getting rich off the backs of workers is a phenomena that cant easily be defended unless you buy into this ideology.

> Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. Unions are a libertarian concept. Freedom of association is the fundamental underpinning of libertarianism. Those at the other end of the spectrum stand for supply management instead.

> Unions are a libertarian concept.

As is union busting.

As the US learned a long time ago, and then eventually forgot, the freedom to organize without employer retribution can only exist with government coercion. And absent that freedom, any attempt to unionize will be (and in the last 30-40 years, has been) crushed by the capital-owning class.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#428

Post by kilgnad »

neves wrote: post #422
kilgnad wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a side note I feel we can take Unionization into the tech world as a start up or an App. Imagine a blind-esque App that just allows everyone participating to vote anonymously for a union. Then AFTER a union is official then leaders and instigators could reveal themselves or maybe there were no leaders or instigators the whole thing was p2p. I feel something as easy and convenient as blind can allow "unions in limb…

Not all the world problems will be solved with an app.

Hah! Old news. You're a decade late.

I don't think this is one of those ideas where some one is twisting some other concept into an app.

I think this fits, big time.

Typically forming a union involves someone stepping up and painting a bullseye on their back. An Blind-esque APP is literally the perfect thing to eliminate this vulnerability.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#429

Post by analognoise »

kilburn wrote: post #357
monero-xmr wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is insanely hard to build a business, and I speak as someone who has built businesses in both tech and franchising (which should theoretically be much more straightforwards). At the primordial stage, before there are reliable revenues, you must have everyone marching to the same drum. If you can’t do what I say, please GTFO because you are actively harming what is already hanging on by a thread. If I can’t fire ba…

It is not _necessary_ to get large investments and people who dedicate every walking minute of their lives to build a succesful company. There are plenty of businesses built on the back of solid work done under healthy life-work balance conditions.

That's the kind of startup I'd join: "I have a reasonable plan, and it doesn't involve bullshit appeals to grinding, absurdist rowing metaphors, or rely on setting cash on fire for growth"

"Sign me up."

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#430

Post by analognoise »

theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

They were already caught conspiring to keep wages down, found guilty and paid huge sums.

We've ALREADY PROVED the conspiracy.

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