Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#151

Post by sl0tr4cer » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

jkaplowitz wrote: post #26

GoToRO wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One company did exactlly that: everybody must be in the office in 3 weeks, 25% quit, no layoffs needed.

In countries with strong labor laws, that rapid dramatic unilateral change in working location itself would count as similar to a sudden firing without cause for workers who don't want to accept the change in work location, either for all such workers or for those who can't easily begin or resume a commute to the office on such short notice. I wish the US had stronger labor laws. :(

Then the sector wouldn't be as dynamic. weak labor laws means rapid response to changing conditions. The onus should be on workers to stay fresh, out of debt, and ready to hustle.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#152

Post by kilgnad » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

jonathankoren wrote: post #98

kilgnad wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a side note I feel we can take Unionization into the tech world as a start up or an App. Imagine a blind-esque App that just allows everyone participating to vote anonymously for a union. Then AFTER a union is official then leaders and instigators could reveal themselves or maybe there were no leaders or instigators the whole thing was p2p. I feel something as easy and convenient as blind can allow "unions in limb…

There are very specific regulatory requirements for unionization as outlined by the NLRB.

from what I read (and I didn't read super extensively) my app idea fits within this structure that's outlined by the NRLB.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#153

Post by bushbaba » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

Unemployment doesn’t show laid off employees who aren’t yet collecting unemployment benefits. These tech workers got at least 60 days of severance thanks to the warn act.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#154

Post by lightbendover » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

jack_riminton wrote: post #55

cfltlayoffs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the recent layoffs I've seen some very senior high-performing engineers get the axe, because they were very expensive and the org could get two juniors grinding out CRUD for the same value as one super senior architecture astronaut.

Things brings about another question. Will the change in economic climate encourage these companies to ditch over-complicated Rube Goldberg machine stacks in favour of ones that allow Juniors to grind out CRUD. One can but hope

I doubt it. Who is going to get a promotion with a sane architecture?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#155

Post by AlbertCory » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #135

area51org wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

You do not have to divulge the basis of your departure from a company. "Creative differences".

But if you're a big executive, "wanted to spend more time with my family" is a popular one.

"Need to explore other opportunities" is a little weaker but still works.

"This chapter in my life is over" is also popular.

I think I should make a bingo card out of these.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#156

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #132

giantg2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be a paywall. What is the profit per employee, before and after employee costs?

Apple's gross profit margin is 40% and net is 23%. OpEx accounts for a surprisingly small amount, actually. Here's a nifty visualization. [1] [1] https://i.redd.it/jg6t8xm07sn91.png

That's nice, but I just realized something. Aren't they a tech company that isn't doing layoffs?

From the stuff I'm reading, the layoffs that are happening are mostly cutting unprofitable programs, or unnecessary support staff. And in very small numbers (5% or less).

At this point, I'm not sure what we're really discussing since this started out as talking about how above average tech salaries are at these top-tier companies, both in terms of the industry and in general. My only point was that I don't think unionizing would be beneficial to increasing tech salary or to preventing there layoffs. Where they would be useful is more consistent treatment of employees and adherence to their own policies.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#157

Post by Phlarp » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

AnEro wrote: post #115

toomuchtodo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important to keep in mind this forum’s audience is a minority in everything except said forum’s viewership. If you’re taking anything from it besides ideas, entertainment, and a dopamine hit, you’re doing it wrong.

Personally I subscribe to the 'you are what you eat' view of social media, we are social creatures, and we will always adjust ourselves to fit what we feel is THE group. Any media then makes subconscious biases whether we like it or not. I don't think YCombinator is doing brainwashing us or some crazy conspiracy, more we will conform to this audience's thinking which ultimately is about start-ups and tech company's a…

>I don't think YCombinator is doing brainwashing us or some crazy conspiracy

Try posting any kind of substantial critique of a YC company and see what happens to the submission.

This site is rather open and shameless about it's manipulation. YC companies get to post job ads that are instantly boosted to the front page and nobody can comment on. They have an official "second chance" queue to force boost posts that didn't receive the "correct" amount of organic attention.

If an individual is posting too many independent ideas they get re-educated by Dang or shadowbanned

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#158

Post by tapatio » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

nicholasjarnold wrote: post #143

irrational wrote: post #106

I’ve never worked for Big Tech, I’ve never even worked in one of the big tech hubs (Bay Area, anywhere in California, Seattle, Austin, NY, etc.), but I do have a hefty 6 figure salary because of the tech workers in those areas. My worry is my company will start to look at laying us off so they can replace us with laid off tech workers at a much lower rate.

To add a counterpoint - I've heard senior executives remark about the likelihood that many of those let go are the not the employees that you really _want_ to pickup. The reasoning they've implied there is that these big companies that hire so voraciously have simply made some mistakes along the way and used the current happenings to jettison those mistakenly-hired employees swiftly and efficiently. Note: I'm sure ma…

It also makes logical sense. Why would you let go of a 10X engineer? You'd have to be an idiot.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#159

Post by j245 » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #114

tukantje wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the love of lord please keep saying this. Because it is true. And because I am sick and tired of this self hate of "inflated salaries". Jesus, we are working in one of the most profitable industries, whatever we build tends to be a long term force multiplier, and somehow a large portion of the sector thinks our earnings are inflated. The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is infla…

"The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life." Haha, ok. Can you not clearly see your own subjective bias? Why doesn't that hedgefund manager deserve it? Many of the people working for tech companies are not middle class. At the very least, $500k+ salaries are above middle class. The starting salary at most top-tier…

Hedge funds are parasites, they are an edge case in capitalism that needs to be patched.

I can’t think of anything else that takes so much, while adding nothing to society.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#160

Post by jklinger410 » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

And I don't buy the coincidental timing of the fed trying to push us into a recession, which they were not being successful at, following shortly with public companies like Google suddenly finding a bunch of inessential staff to cut.

It's not like Google is taking out loans for payroll, or that it was obvious that this move was necessary. These inessential employees have been inessential for years.