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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#131

Post by andsoitis »

arcticbull wrote: post #70
giantg2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the union solve in this specific instance? Tech has had high pay gor a long time, mostly due to cheap money. If the cheap money goes away, how do they pay these inflated salaries? Overall, I think unions can be good because you have clear terms defined in a contract. That provides a more fair environment when it comes to worker treatment, calibration, etc. But I don't see it helping with pay in most cases,…

Nothing to do with cheap money, tech companies are some of the most profitable and revenue efficient companies in history.

And software engineers, even entry level, are some of the most highly paid workers on the planet.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#132

Post by arcticbull »

giantg2 wrote: post #117
arcticbull wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think folks really lose perspective. Apple has a revenue per employee of $2,375,435 and that includes the janitorial staff. [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-emplo...

Seems to be a paywall. What is the profit per employee, before and after employee costs?

Apple's gross profit margin is 40% and net is 23%. OpEx accounts for a surprisingly small amount, actually. Here's a nifty visualization. [1]

[1] https://i.redd.it/jg6t8xm07sn91.png

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#133

Post by kilgnad »

ramesh31 wrote: post #111
kilgnad wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a side note I feel we can take Unionization into the tech world as a start up or an App. Imagine a blind-esque App that just allows everyone participating to vote anonymously for a union. Then AFTER a union is official then leaders and instigators could reveal themselves or maybe there were no leaders or instigators the whole thing was p2p. I feel something as easy and convenient as blind can allow "unions in limb…

Unions are political entities with leadership and power structures. This would be akin to casting a random blind vote for president.

Yes. But does the law require this. Does the law require the union to have a leader and be operational at all times?

Apologies, I'm honestly ignorant about the exact nature of the law here. But from the informal descriptions that I read this is possible.

The main point of my idea is instantaneous organization and formation of a central point of negotiation. It's quite obvious that the majority of tech workers are currently interested in forming a union but the bureaucracy is making this hard to happen.

With this app, the union forms a day after a layoff. A poll is kicked off on the Blind-esque unionization app and immediately submitted to the proper government sectors once a consensus is reached. There is no human in the loop as a central point. All participants are just part of the community who Agree with the automated rules of the app.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#134

Post by kradroy »

JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

I'm hoping these highly compensated former employees go on to build their own companies that create more jobs. That would be a net gain for everyone.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#135

Post by killjoywashere »

area51org wrote: post #122
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

You do not have to divulge the basis of your departure from a company. "Creative differences".

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#136

Post by piva00 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #65
pm90 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be difficult to prove active collusion, its more like institutionalized collusion, and I doubt that's a crime. e.g. the same consulting firms are hired by all companies, and they will give the same advice when dealing with falling revenues, plunging stock prices etc.

Nobody needs to collude or conspire when interests align.

Interests and incentives align perfectly: make more money at the top (stock goes up after a layoff if the company isn't going bankrupt), crush employee's power and morale, afraid employees either work harder or quit.

The price for that is just some more attrition and losing a bit of culture, both things that aren't priced in for their bonuses/stocks and so the C-level couldn't care less.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#137

Post by Phlarp »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #71
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

I'm not sure that they have changed. People brought it up before and people are bringing it up now and they'll continue bringing it up. I think the tech workers are generally still opposed to the idea

The reaction I got from previous pithy comments on unionization in past years vs. the reaction I got today from a pithy comment about unionization is absolutely night and day. The volume and pace of upvotes was eye popping and the comments have actually been discussing the merits of unionization and the realities of big tech as a labor force instead of incoherent screeching about the benevolence of FAANG

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#138

Post by samstave »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

Never forget when all the FAANG execs were colluding about employee pay and non-poaching agreements...

They denied it and it was later proven out.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#139

Post by traverseda »

paulcole wrote: post #124
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

Many people on HN think of themselves as "top talent" (a barf phrase if there ever was one) and convinced themselves that they would be the ones held back by a union.

As a developer without any formal education (I dropped out of high school) my worry is that unions will be used to enforce credentialism.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#140

Post by rhaway84773 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #135
area51org wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

You do not have to divulge the basis of your departure from a company. "Creative differences".

Many people would assume you got laid off if your creative differences happened to coincide with the layoffs.
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