Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A genius at suffering

newcriterion.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: A genius at suffering

#21

Post by morelisp »

bsenftner wrote: post #8

At risk of triggering an uncomfortable discussion, why does it seem that European intellectuals in general appear more extreme than any of their American counterparts; and Eastern European Intellectuals take that extremeness even further, ultimately creating Communism. Is it "American Pragmatism" that prevents the extreme intellectual from forming in the United States? Is it a cultural respect for complete commitment…

Garshin's life very nearly bookends the US Civil War, the deadliest war in American history fought over the right to literally own another person.

In what real sense is America less extreme?

Re: A genius at suffering

#22

Post by starkd »

spicymapotofu wrote: post #19
starkd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's it to you? That you have to make snide commments about other people's belief systems? Why are you so hostile?

An empathetic or curious perspective would imagine that they had come to hold a negative attitude toward religion as a result of some experience. If you were asking in good faith, it certainly did not appear so.

Whatever. Their "some experience" is not relevant here. His comment is full of implicit aggression that is uncalled for.

Re: A genius at suffering

#23

Post by bsenftner »

morelisp wrote: post #21
bsenftner wrote: post #8

At risk of triggering an uncomfortable discussion, why does it seem that European intellectuals in general appear more extreme than any of their American counterparts; and Eastern European Intellectuals take that extremeness even further, ultimately creating Communism. Is it "American Pragmatism" that prevents the extreme intellectual from forming in the United States? Is it a cultural respect for complete commitment…

Garshin's life very nearly bookends the US Civil War, the deadliest war in American history fought over the right to literally own another person. In what real sense is America less extreme?

The US civil war has no pro-slavery philosophers or intellectuals that have any respect, short of those that desire a return to such a barbaric society. While Eastern European philosophy and literature has a wealth of respect from many perspectives to this day.

Re: A genius at suffering

#24

Post by goldenchrome »

fancybouncy wrote: post #9
roca wrote: post #4

So the question is, how does one maintain hope and joy while taking human depravity seriously? My answer is: by following Christ. Some of Garshin's peers could see this but apparently Garshin himself could not.

aka fanatically telling yourself fairy tales until you blind yourself to reality

Have you ever considered why fairy tales have persisted? Why do we see the same stories repeated time and time again? Why are tales retold in Disney and Marvel movies to the tune of billions in profit? It’s because the stories resonate, which is another way of saying they present an essential truth. They teach us something about ourselves that help us make better decisions.

The lessons can be misinterpreted, abused, and used to manipulate others, but there’s a reason why those stories in particular persisted.

This is even more amazing when you consider that these stories had to be passed down every generation for thousands of years through word of mouth. It’s a tenuous process. Only the most truthful stories will last through the ages.

Therefore, there is value in telling yourself fairy tales because you might learn something. Even if you’re not religious, you’ve heard many of the stories already through pop culture. It isn’t clear that blinding yourself from reality necessarily follows from being religious.

Re: A genius at suffering

#25

Post by morelisp »

bsenftner wrote: post #23
morelisp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garshin's life very nearly bookends the US Civil War, the deadliest war in American history fought over the right to literally own another person. In what real sense is America less extreme?

The US civil war has no pro-slavery philosophers or intellectuals that have any respect, short of those that desire a return to such a barbaric society. While Eastern European philosophy and literature has a wealth of respect from many perspectives to this day.

> no pro-slavery philosophers or intellectuals that have any respect

Thomas Jefferson still seems to be quite popular to quote, even here on HN.

Re: A genius at suffering

#26

Post by morelisp »

starkd wrote: post #22
spicymapotofu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An empathetic or curious perspective would imagine that they had come to hold a negative attitude toward religion as a result of some experience. If you were asking in good faith, it certainly did not appear so.

Whatever. Their "some experience" is not relevant here. His comment is full of implicit aggression that is uncalled for.

As opposed to OP's "Garshin's just sad because he didn't come to Jesus"? This entire subthread was bait, don't act high and mighty when someone bites.

Re: A genius at suffering

#27

Post by [deleted] »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #11
commodorepet wrote: post #10

There is a Polish saying that great Polish literature requires three people to suffer: the main character, the writer and the reader. If all three are suffering book becomes part of the school curriculum.

In Dutch literature it seems that the reader has to suffer while the author describes his newest niche fetish to the reader, usually teenagers in secondary school.

[deleted]

Re: A genius at suffering

#28

Post by bsenftner »

morelisp wrote: post #25
bsenftner wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US civil war has no pro-slavery philosophers or intellectuals that have any respect, short of those that desire a return to such a barbaric society. While Eastern European philosophy and literature has a wealth of respect from many perspectives to this day.

> no pro-slavery philosophers or intellectuals that have any respect Thomas Jefferson still seems to be quite popular to quote, even here on HN.

He's not pro slavery; in fact: Throughout his entire life, Thomas Jefferson was publicly a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation. Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty." https://www.monticello.org/thomas-jefferson/jefferson-slaver...

Re: A genius at suffering

#29

Post by paulryanrogers »

goldenchrome wrote: post #24
fancybouncy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aka fanatically telling yourself fairy tales until you blind yourself to reality

Have you ever considered why fairy tales have persisted? Why do we see the same stories repeated time and time again? Why are tales retold in Disney and Marvel movies to the tune of billions in profit? It’s because the stories resonate, which is another way of saying they present an essential truth. They teach us something about ourselves that help us make better decisions. The lessons can be misinterpreted, abused,…

> Have you ever considered why fairy tales have persisted? Why do we see the same stories repeated time and time again? Why are tales retold in Disney and Marvel movies to the tune of billions in profit?

Yes. Nostalgia and profit. Pre-copyright works are in the public domain. And people will pay for familiar things, especially those that remind them of their youth.

> ...there’s a reason why those stories in particular persisted.

See above and also survivorship bias

Re: A genius at suffering

#30

Post by AnonMessiah »

bsenftner wrote: post #28
morelisp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no pro-slavery philosophers or intellectuals that have any respect Thomas Jefferson still seems to be quite popular to quote, even here on HN.

He's not pro slavery; in fact: Throughout his entire life, Thomas Jefferson was publicly a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation. Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty." https://www…

>"...enslaved more than six-hundred people over the course of his life" Seems to me that if you do own 600 people over the course of your life you, at least implicitly, condone slavery.
Post reply on HN