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Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

sh1mmer.me

181–190 of 203 posts

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#181
post #160
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developmentally, a 16-18 year old is very different than a child. I don’t know whether laptops in school are bad for children, but you can’t really make that comparison. Personally, my belief is that children should learn to use computers (I did as a child, and it was massively beneficial) but that computers should not be central to their foundational education. Kids shouldn’t learn basic arithmetic on a computer. Th…

One thought: if the computer is locked down into a mode where it's acting as a fancy typewriter to fill form-fields (i.e. if you're kiosked into the Blackboard worksheet "app" during the lesson), then what's the difference between learning by typing vs. "by writing"? Another thought: "learning with their hands, with things they can hold" is nice to say, but counting blocks/geometry boards/etc are actually rather expe…

> One thought: if the computer is locked down into a mode where it's acting as a fancy typewriter to fill form-fields (i.e. if you're kiosked into the Blackboard worksheet "app" during the lesson), then what's the difference between learning by typing vs. "by writing"?

There is some evidence to suggest that writing does help retain information, as multiple functions of the brain are being engaged with the same information. Whether that extends to typing and using a computer I do not know.

> Another thought: "learning with their hands, with things they can hold" is nice to say, but counting blocks/geometry boards/etc are actually rather expensive (hard to have as many sets as there are kids, for several reasons), so often kids will only get a short amount of time to experience such things, rather than being able to use them as a thinking aid whenever they want until they grow out of the need for them.

That's a failure of the education system, not an argument in favor of computers in the classroom. That problem is solvable without computers.

Lastly, kids learning how to use computers is a good thing, I do believe. I do not, however, believe that learning on computers should replace other forms of learning, especially for foundational skills.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#182
post #160
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developmentally, a 16-18 year old is very different than a child. I don’t know whether laptops in school are bad for children, but you can’t really make that comparison. Personally, my belief is that children should learn to use computers (I did as a child, and it was massively beneficial) but that computers should not be central to their foundational education. Kids shouldn’t learn basic arithmetic on a computer. Th…

One thought: if the computer is locked down into a mode where it's acting as a fancy typewriter to fill form-fields (i.e. if you're kiosked into the Blackboard worksheet "app" during the lesson), then what's the difference between learning by typing vs. "by writing"? Another thought: "learning with their hands, with things they can hold" is nice to say, but counting blocks/geometry boards/etc are actually rather expe…

> One thought: if the computer is locked down into a mode where it's acting as a fancy typewriter to fill form-fields (i.e. if you're kiosked into the Blackboard worksheet "app" during the lesson), then what's the difference between learning by typing vs. "by writing"?

There's a good amount of evidence for a difference. Example study (of which there are many): https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210319080820.h...

"A study of university students and recent graduates has revealed that writing on physical paper can lead to more brain activity when remembering the information an hour later. Researchers say that the unique, complex, spatial and tactile information associated with writing by hand on physical paper is likely what leads to improved memory."

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#183
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developmentally, a 16-18 year old is very different than a child. I don’t know whether laptops in school are bad for children, but you can’t really make that comparison. Personally, my belief is that children should learn to use computers (I did as a child, and it was massively beneficial) but that computers should not be central to their foundational education. Kids shouldn’t learn basic arithmetic on a computer. Th…

You say that as if learning maths by hand/on paper is generally effective. Tell me that your peers aren't innumerate.

Most people have the world's knowledge in their pocket, including a calculator, and still can't tell you the original price of a $25.00 item that's 15% off. You're describing a general education problem.

I'm not saying you can't teach kids math on a computer, I'm saying I believe it's better not to.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is not something that I have thought about very much as they very likely have phones where they are able to view all of the same content, anyway.

Why would you watch porn at school

Kids are dumb

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#185

I wouldn't have a career in IT if I hadn't spent many hours at ages 11 to 15 trying to get round my schools network security. My logon was frequently disabled for misuse and I was even suspended for a couple of days once but I learnt more that way than in any class I've ever taken.

Dad did a PhD in something with a lot of math and so we had a computer even when I was a kid. Got exposed at a young age.

Eventually I figured out how to use the dial up to see naked pictures. Old man changed the dial-up password, wouldn't let us use the computer.

Occasionally, when he was around he'd let me online for legit school stuff. I'd heard of keyloggers -- featured prominently in stories about catching cheating lovers -- so while allowed on for legitimate reasons I got on Altavista and was successful in downloading and installing one. Couple days later I had an opportunity to kick off the program while no one was around. It worked -- got the password.

Ended up in military signals and then cyber. Now a fatass IT guy working remotely. Adversarial relationships spark learning, it seems, be it parents, school, war, etc.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#187

I wouldn't have a career in IT if I hadn't spent many hours at ages 11 to 15 trying to get round my schools network security. My logon was frequently disabled for misuse and I was even suspended for a couple of days once but I learnt more that way than in any class I've ever taken.

Although I was already well into programming by then, my final "huh if I enjoy this so much I might as well pursue it as a career" push came from a similar incident, except it was about getting access to the faster wifi for the teachers in exchange for showing my calculus teacher how to bypass the website blocking.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#188
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a major difference between using something that removes the need for basic knowledge, as opposed to allows that knowledge to be learned in a different way. I'm not advocating not teaching people to write , I'm suggesting we do that, but then provide them the option to use a computer to assist their learning. If you provide someone with a calculator, there's no need for them to learn how to do basic ma…

> I think there's a major difference between using something that removes the need for basic knowledge, as opposed to allows that knowledge to be learned in a different way. > I'm not advocating not teaching people to write, I'm suggesting we do that, but then provide them the option to use a computer to assist their learning Q1a: What would we say is the purpose of young people learning to write unaided, with just p…

Again, not advocating teaching people with the machines that abstract, just letting them use the machines to help them collect their knowledge and solidify it. My point is very clear, and there's no real ambiguity in what I'm getting at. You're constructing a slippery slope argument here and asking "well if we let them take notes on laptops, then what? Stop teaching them to add"?
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