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My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

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Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#101

Post by wkat4242 »

thfuran wrote: post #64
wkat4242 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually quite ergonomic if you have the laptop in your lap. Using the touchpad is more awkward. This is basically what I use the touchscreen on my Thinkpad for.

But working with a laptop in your lap is just about the opposite of ergonomic.

True but I don't necessarily "work" like that. Generally it's just reading something quickly, and then the touchscreen is really handy.

It's really something that is useful in a small percentage of cases but really helpful in those. I wouldn't want to miss it. Lenovo even does matte touchscreens so there is no disadvantage (I hate glossy screens so Apple isn't an option for me either way). Usually glossy is the tradeoff you make for a touchscreen, but not in this case.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#102

Post by Tagbert »

roxgib wrote: post #16

Every tech journalist moans about Macs lacking touch screens, but I really hope it never happens. Touch interfaces and desktop interfaces are fundamentally different and having both just forces a lot of compromise. But it seems like Apple gets that and is just unifying the experience a bit rather than paving the way for touch screen MacBooks, at least I hope.

There is no hard requirement to redesign the whole UI around touch on a laptop. Touch will never be the only or even primary interaction mode on a laptop. It is an alternate mode suitable for some interactions and as a way to “take a break” from the repetitive movements of keyboard/trackpad/mouse.

If you observer people who use a touch-enabled laptop, they will dynamically switch interaction modes depending on the situation. Scrolling the screen, pressing a button, dragging an element, zooming are all actions that lend themselves to touch. It is not an either/or choice. That is why fears of “gorilla arm” are overblown. I also find that switching modes can be a relief when the keyboard or trackpad/mouse gets tiring. It helps to switch up movements to avoid repetitive stress.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#103

Post by Tagbert »

barnabee wrote: post #32

Not sure about “worst” but I really hate that they’ve made the menu bar taller than the notch on the MacBook Pro— why on Earth would you do that?! I also don’t love the new settings app or the trend toward highly graphical, touchscreen style bundled apps, but I can ignore most of them so it’s not a huge deal.

The menubar is slightly taller than the notch due to how the human visual system deals with lines close to each other. A curve (notch corner) intersecting with a line (menubar bottom edge) tend to make the line look bent and it looks wrong. Having the bottom edge of the menubar offset from the notch avoids that visual artifact. As a bonus, it keeps the notch from looking like it is pushing into the content area and it makes the notch look a little smaller.

This kind of attention to detail has historically been a hallmark of Apple’s sophisticated design sense. They don’t always go the extra mile on it but when they do, it makes a difference.

I like the navigation of the new Settings app over the older Control Panel but the individual panels seem incomplete. Mac OS is not the same as iOS and I would hope that they spend some time optimizing the controls and layout of those settings apps for Mac OS.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#104

Post by Tagbert »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #45
barnabee wrote: post #32

Not sure about “worst” but I really hate that they’ve made the menu bar taller than the notch on the MacBook Pro— why on Earth would you do that?! I also don’t love the new settings app or the trend toward highly graphical, touchscreen style bundled apps, but I can ignore most of them so it’s not a huge deal.

On that note... why do the MacBooks even have a notch considering: A) FaceID is tiny now, look at the iPhone 14, and B) No Mac has FaceID anyway. What's in there apart from a tiny camera and light sensor? There's no way those two things can take up that much space.

FaceID is much thicker than the lid in a MacBook. The phones are much thicker. If you were to add it, there would need to be a wart on the lid to make space for it.

TouchId works well the the keyboard-oriented interface of a laptop so there is little additional benefit to FaceID. In the iOS implementations, you still need a special button to authorize purchases with FaceID, so it doesn’t help in that situation.

BTW the notch is that size because the model contains a camera and two separate sensors as well as mounting features. It is larger than you might think. It may be possible to reengineer it to be smaller in later versions of the MacBooks. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-s-notch-hous...

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#105

Post by Tagbert »

rsynnott wrote: post #35

Hmm, besides the ridiculous settings app, I've found Ventura to be generally a pretty painless update.

I prefer the navigation of the new Settings app but the layout of the individual panels and the controls seems unfinished and not really optimized for keyboard and for Mac OS conventions.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#106

Post by cassianoleal »

lapcat wrote: post #87
cassianoleal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

⌘F puts the focus on the search bar. It is a step back in usability but I would hardly call it a major one. I agree with the rest of your post.

> ⌘F puts the focus on the search bar. It is a step back in usability but I would hardly call it a major one. The topic was the usability of the search bar specifically: "at least the settings search bar still works as expected" I have to press ⌘F first almost every time I open System Settings, because I'm typically going for a setting that isn't readily in view, so I would reaffirm that it's a major difference in us…

That's fair, but what I was responding to was:

> One major difference in usability is that the search field has the focus on launch in System Preferences but not in System Settings.

It literally says that not having the search field with focus on launch is a major difference in usability. I still don't think it is, since it's a single 2-key chord away.

I have already agreed that otherwise it's much worse, I just don't see this particular feature loss on its own as a major one.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#107

Post by diebeforei485 »

Tagbert wrote: post #103
barnabee wrote: post #32

Not sure about “worst” but I really hate that they’ve made the menu bar taller than the notch on the MacBook Pro— why on Earth would you do that?! I also don’t love the new settings app or the trend toward highly graphical, touchscreen style bundled apps, but I can ignore most of them so it’s not a huge deal.

The menubar is slightly taller than the notch due to how the human visual system deals with lines close to each other. A curve (notch corner) intersecting with a line (menubar bottom edge) tend to make the line look bent and it looks wrong. Having the bottom edge of the menubar offset from the notch avoids that visual artifact. As a bonus, it keeps the notch from looking like it is pushing into the content area and i…

> A curve (notch corner) intersecting with a line (menubar bottom edge) tend to make the line look bent and it looks wrong.

Is there a name for this optical illusion?

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#108

Post by 3pac »

3pac wrote: post #85

I think that MacOS is terrific and keeps getting better. It's well past time to include Pages, Numbers, Keynote, GarageBand and iMovie in the base install image. Also mkv, ogg, opus codecs for QuickTime. I prefer to do as much as I can from the trusted base install. I do not wish to install Homebrew or anything else. I wish that the base install included a few CLI packages like nmap and bsd-games. Also some public-do…

I forgot Xcode, it should be included, plus all the Dictionary files, considering how much storage is on even the base configurations being sold.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#109

Post by wenc »

Tagbert wrote: post #104
ClassyJacket wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note... why do the MacBooks even have a notch considering: A) FaceID is tiny now, look at the iPhone 14, and B) No Mac has FaceID anyway. What's in there apart from a tiny camera and light sensor? There's no way those two things can take up that much space.

FaceID is much thicker than the lid in a MacBook. The phones are much thicker. If you were to add it, there would need to be a wart on the lid to make space for it. TouchId works well the the keyboard-oriented interface of a laptop so there is little additional benefit to FaceID. In the iOS implementations, you still need a special button to authorize purchases with FaceID, so it doesn’t help in that situation. BTW t…

Touch ID does not work well during the winter in northern climates. The lack of humidity leads to dry fingertips that Touch ID does not recognize consistently.

I have 5 finger prints saved - and every couple of weeks Touch ID fails to recognize any due to dry fingers. I’ve just gotten used to entering the numeric passcode instead.

In contrast Face ID rarely fails.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#110

Post by millzlane »

rsynnott wrote: post #35

Hmm, besides the ridiculous settings app, I've found Ventura to be generally a pretty painless update.

I'm glad it's not just me that found the setting app ridiculous. That's being kind. They have also moved startup items out of the users pane. And removing a network service warns you that it can't be undone. So even a ACMT tech is afraid of continuing due to the prompt.
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