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My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

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Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#41

Post by lapcat »

flohofwoe wrote: post #37
rsynnott wrote: post #35

Hmm, besides the ridiculous settings app, I've found Ventura to be generally a pretty painless update.

...it is quite an achievement to come up with something that's even worse than the previous "icon soup" settings though ;) (at least the settings search bar still works as expected - which is now more important because discovery definitely has suffered)

> at least the settings search bar still works as expected

It actually doesn't. One major difference in usability is that the search field has the focus on launch in System Preferences but not in System Settings.

In general, keyboard navigation in System Settings is a massive downgrade. This is what happens when you model desktop software after mobile.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#42

Post by CharlieDigital »

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #36
CharlieDigital wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially w…

[flagged]

Because there's more precision and we are sitting together making the sharing of the touchpad more awkward then sharing the screen as an interface.

It's pretty simple.

I also have two kids under 12 and their first reaction to any screen is to use it as an interface and look confused when it doesn't work :D

(I use an MBP myself and do find the desire to have a touch interface like her Surface)

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#43

Post by flohofwoe »

sergiomattei wrote: post #38
RedShift1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what's going on but how does asking the user for permission help? They're just going to click accept, ok, whatever to continue working. I doubt the user will even understand what's going on.

> Leaves laptop on desk, goes to bathroom. > Bad actor plugs in device. Pwned. This is why asking to allow works as a security measure.

In that case the machine would be locked and no new USB connections should be accepted in locked state?

And if the computer isn't locked during your bathroom break, the "bad actor" can do whatever he wants anyway, including clicking the Ok button after inserting the USB device.

But in general, yeah, an USB popup is the least of Ventura's problems (the much bigger problem is the slow but steady "iOS-ification" of macOS).

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#44

Post by nixpulvis »

acdha wrote: post #3

His first gripe is the prompt for USB HID devices, where he even has been told the correct answer but attempts to pretend it away. Unfortunately, Apple is right whether or not he appreciates how many people have tried clever attacks – see https://github.com/topics/hid-attacks – but my favorite write up is this one: https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/plasma_globe/

I feel dumb, but how do you ever setup a mouse/keyboard on a brand new macOS desktop?

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#45

Post by ClassyJacket »

barnabee wrote: post #32

Not sure about “worst” but I really hate that they’ve made the menu bar taller than the notch on the MacBook Pro— why on Earth would you do that?! I also don’t love the new settings app or the trend toward highly graphical, touchscreen style bundled apps, but I can ignore most of them so it’s not a huge deal.

On that note... why do the MacBooks even have a notch considering:

A) FaceID is tiny now, look at the iPhone 14, and

B) No Mac has FaceID anyway.

What's in there apart from a tiny camera and light sensor? There's no way those two things can take up that much space.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#46

Post by withinboredom »

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #36
CharlieDigital wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially w…

[flagged]

It sounds like you haven't had that interface. I haven't had a touch screen in nearly 6 years (since my Surface Pro 2 died its final death), and I'm not going to lie, every now and then I still reach up with my ring finger to flick the screen while mashing a function key when doing step debugging.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#48

Post by acdha »

goosedragons wrote: post #25
acdha wrote: post #3

His first gripe is the prompt for USB HID devices, where he even has been told the correct answer but attempts to pretend it away. Unfortunately, Apple is right whether or not he appreciates how many people have tried clever attacks – see https://github.com/topics/hid-attacks – but my favorite write up is this one: https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/plasma_globe/

How common is it though? This was my beef with Apple too, they add security to the point it was actively getting in my way. I'm sure my house would be more secure if I auto-locked every room and they all had seperate keys but it would also be incredibly annoying. I don't use a Mac anymore but does Apple also prompt you for plugging in say a Magic Mouse or Keyboard for pairing?

They definitely do prompt, because it’s not uncommon. There’s an entire cottage industry selling tools:

https://shop.hak5.org/products/usb-rubber-ducky

More importantly, it puts you one hack away from arbitrary code execution. That device is a dedicated testing tool but there are tons of USB devices which have vulnerable firmware, and the OS vendor can’t know whether you’d pick up a USB key you find on the ground, buy a gadget off of Craigslist, or maybe you care about security but not enough to stop using Google Chrome and it turns out that one of your attached devices is exploitable via WebUSB/Bluetooth/MIDI/etc. but you won’t learn that until the next time you plug it in to charge it.

Apple does prompt their devices, and if memory serves that’s for the same reason: USB isn’t authenticated so they can’t easily tell that a device claiming to be an Apple keyboard actually is.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#49

Post by celeritascelery »

flohofwoe wrote: post #43
sergiomattei wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leaves laptop on desk, goes to bathroom. > Bad actor plugs in device. Pwned. This is why asking to allow works as a security measure.

In that case the machine would be locked and no new USB connections should be accepted in locked state? And if the computer isn't locked during your bathroom break, the "bad actor" can do whatever he wants anyway, including clicking the Ok button after inserting the USB device. But in general, yeah, an USB popup is the least of Ventura's problems (the much bigger problem is the slow but steady "iOS-ification" of macO…

> In that case the machine would be locked and no new USB connections should be accepted in locked state?

Until you get back and unlock the device. Or if you have a usb hub it is possible for someone to plug something in without your knowledge while using the device.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#50

Post by kennethkl »

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #36
CharlieDigital wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially w…

[flagged]

you don't strike me as someone who reads much, so i can understand why you don't see the usefulness of scroll pan zoom on a computer. specifically on large pdf documents with tiny text. maybe I'm getting old, but those tech spec sheets text feel like they are getting tinier.

also not sure why you'd think ppl wave their hands in front of a touch screen all day blocking their view. most ppl are capable of moving their hands out of the way. it's not clear if you've used a smart phone before, but it's the same. though, i imagine if you did, you'd do as you imagine others do with a touch screen.

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