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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#141

Post by Pulcinella »

pm90 wrote: post #35
Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

It would be difficult to prove active collusion, its more like institutionalized collusion, and I doubt that's a crime. e.g. the same consulting firms are hired by all companies, and they will give the same advice when dealing with falling revenues, plunging stock prices etc.

Also, Powell has said the Federal Reserve is trying to increase unemployment and decrease wages so it’s unlikely to be prosecuted even if there was evidence of intentional and active collusion considering corporations and the government are aligned on this.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#142

Post by LewisVerstappen »

area51org wrote: post #122
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

Definitely not the case if you're a FAANG developer.

The issue is that a lot of these people may have to take pay cuts and make less than what they were previously earning.

Especially if you were L4+ at Google or something. Not many companies that'll pay $350k+ for a software engineer. Those that will are not currently hiring.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#143

Post by nicholasjarnold »

irrational wrote: post #106

I’ve never worked for Big Tech, I’ve never even worked in one of the big tech hubs (Bay Area, anywhere in California, Seattle, Austin, NY, etc.), but I do have a hefty 6 figure salary because of the tech workers in those areas. My worry is my company will start to look at laying us off so they can replace us with laid off tech workers at a much lower rate.

To add a counterpoint - I've heard senior executives remark about the likelihood that many of those let go are the not the employees that you really _want_ to pickup. The reasoning they've implied there is that these big companies that hire so voraciously have simply made some mistakes along the way and used the current happenings to jettison those mistakenly-hired employees swiftly and efficiently.

Note: I'm sure many very talented people were caught up in this tide, too. I'm just relaying some anecdotal opinions that I've heard from hiring managers and execs in my personal and professional circles.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#144

Post by andsoitis »

gilbert_vanova wrote: post #11

I had a manager namecheck the layoffs as a reason they don't need to move on addressing any of our team's concerns about working conditions. Same manager invoked the Nuremburg Defense the other day. Trying times.

> addressing any of our team's concerns about working conditions

What are some of your team's concerns about working conditions? Are you guys being treated badly?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#146

Post by jonathankoren »

cloutchaser wrote: post #33
noorkersz wrote: post #2

follow up question, why hasn't apple needed to do this? how are they keeping 'tabs' on 'worker power'?

Second hand information: Apple on average takes 2 years to fill an empty position. They almost never lay anyone off, just find another role for someone. It's where the evil corporation narrative falls down, apple makes sure they hire the right people and then keep them. It's the way it should be. But even for other tech companies, people on HN need to look outside of tech and see what life is like, there are people o…

I’m sorry, but this is just class war crap. Instead of pitting workers against each other like the plutocrats want, always ALWAYS remember that even with all that non-monetary compensation, the executives are still taking more 100x of the value created by the worker.

This is like complaining about some athlete getting paid millions to risk their health for entertainment, while not once giving a thought about the billionaire that pays them.

No one is buying a ticket to watch Jerry Jones sit up in a skybox. Similarly, no one buys a piece of software or a chicken breast because of some exec cruising away on inertia.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#147

Post by ejb999 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #135
area51org wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

You do not have to divulge the basis of your departure from a company. "Creative differences".

hiring managers are not that dumb ... if you prior job is amazon, and you are applying for a new job 2 months after 18K have been laid off - they can put 2 and 2 together pretty easily. Even if you did leave on your own accord, they will likely assume you were let go.

It's almost always easier to get a new job, when you still have one.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#148

Post by bee_rider »

kilgnad wrote: post #47
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

Some fields reduce worker infighting with unions. Some reduce it with licensing. Management insists, though, that Software Engineers are too prestigious for the former, and well, the latter is just gatekeeping. Weird, that!

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#149

Post by pmarreck »

imwillofficial wrote: post #36
pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I despise Hanlons razor. It flies against everything we know about people in power. Probably made popular by powerful

There's a better, less-oversimplified discussion of Hanlon's Razor over here:

https://fs.blog/mental-model-hanlons-razor/

"An instance of Hanlon’s razor being proven wrong is the mafia. Prior to the 1960s, the existence of the mafia was considered to be a conspiracy theory. Only when a member contacted law enforcement, did police realize that the malice being perpetrated was carefully orchestrated." (I was not aware of this!)

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#150

Post by JCM9 »

pwthornton wrote: post #127
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

Big tech layoffs should work differently than most industries and may not impact unemployment as much. Big tech employees a lot of H1B visas holders. If they cannot quickly find a new job, they will have to leave the country.

I get the practical element of this stinks, but technically that’s what H1Bs are about. The original sponsor said we have to bring this person into the country since nobody else here can do this incredibly important highly in demand thing. If people aren’t tripping over themselves to snatch up someone that came into the market with those skills then the attitude of the government is maybe it’s no longer rare or in high demand and thus we can’t justify having that person here anymore. Yeah it’s rather cold and transactional, but that’s the model for H1Bs.
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