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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#31

Post by baud147258 »

rmorey wrote: post #9
noorkersz wrote: post #2

follow up question, why hasn't apple needed to do this? how are they keeping 'tabs' on 'worker power'?

Union-busting, NDA’s, restricting new slack channels, non-competes - all the usual ways!

> restricting new slack channels

how is restricting the creation of chatrooms in a communication tool that's likely provided by the company in any way comparable to any of your other examples? If Slack is provided by your company, they would likely have mean to get everything you might have written there, that's already an incentive to move any discussion the company might frown on (like talk of unionizing efforts) on another platform that's not controlled by them.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#32

Post by Apocryphon »

gumby wrote: post #23

absurd: > “Controlling labor costs via periodic layoffs is like breathing for Silicon Valley: cyclical, necessary for life,” Malcolm Harris The current wave of layoff is unusual, hence being extensively discussed on sites like HN.

Layoff for this tech boom but what about before the late 2000s?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#33

Post by cloutchaser »

noorkersz wrote: post #2

follow up question, why hasn't apple needed to do this? how are they keeping 'tabs' on 'worker power'?

Second hand information: Apple on average takes 2 years to fill an empty position. They almost never lay anyone off, just find another role for someone.

It's where the evil corporation narrative falls down, apple makes sure they hire the right people and then keep them. It's the way it should be.

But even for other tech companies, people on HN need to look outside of tech and see what life is like, there are people on here who literally had the best possible jobs in the entire history of humanity, with prepaid 3 meals a day, free daycare, free gym, free everything, yet somehow think that these companies were evil exploitative capitalists.

I'm sorry - no. These were the best employers in the world. Now there's a serious downturn in the economy, they are firing like 5-10% of staff. That's nothing. Try being a factory worker at a Tyson food factory in the midwest, or a foxconn factory in china, then you'll understood how good these tech companies treat their employees.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#34

Post by onion2k »

aliqot wrote: post #3

You mean *consolidate worker power. Critical people don't get layoffs unless they work for a muskcorp.

Critical people don't get layoffs unless they work for a muskcorp.

Google have just let Chris DiBona, Jeremy Allison, and Cat Allman go. I guess you might not consider those people critical to Google's mission, but laying them off is probably going to have an impact on Google's ability to recruit people from the open source community in the future.

https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/27/google_open_source/

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#35

Post by pm90 »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

It would be difficult to prove active collusion, its more like institutionalized collusion, and I doubt that's a crime.

e.g. the same consulting firms are hired by all companies, and they will give the same advice when dealing with falling revenues, plunging stock prices etc.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#36

Post by imwillofficial »

pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I despise Hanlons razor. It flies against everything we know about people in power.

Probably made popular by powerful

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#37

Post by cmsonger »

xt00 wrote: post #15

Would be interesting to see if there is a strong relationship between the companies doing layoffs and the companies who did WFH en masse and might be thinking a layoff will “encourage” their compliance to come back to the office.

I think the WARN act (here in the US) is site based. They don't need employees to be encouraged. If they want to tell people: "Get to a site or don't have a job", they can do that already. (I think, I am not a lawyer.)

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#38

Post by widowlark »

gilbert_vanova wrote: post #17
pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I have a recent counter razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is better explained by self-interest" Many of these orgs laying off thousands have fallen into the depths of a moral maze -- where rational thinking is just impossible and all that's left is self-preservation.

Vanova's Razor

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#39

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

I mean, it's not the first time that SV execs have colluded. See also infamous Eric Schmidt / Steve Jobs non-poaching agreement that leaked.

But I also don't think explicit collusion is actually necessary. Once one does it, the others can follow without fear of losing staff to the others. Meta and Twitter started the fire, the others can just toss in some logs.

So it has the effective material results as if there was a conspiracy, without the need for it.

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