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My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

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Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#91

Post by goosedragons »

acdha wrote: post #67
goosedragons wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware the tools exist but how actively exploited is it? Prompting you doesn't help in scenarios like buying a compromised gadget off Craiglist or a finding a USB key on the ground. The user is going to accept the prompt anyways to use it to begin with. Does it prompt you again if the USB devices firmware changes even while it's constantly plugged in? The only scenario I can see this being helpful is if someone is…

> The user is going to accept the prompt anyways to use it to begin with. Some people will but some are going to ask why, changing this from a silent attack to one far more likely to be noticed and reported. That’s especially useful if you’re worried about widespread malware doing something like this to chain from a phone or some kind of IoT device to computers, or a factory in China being compromised but not noticin…

Why would they ask why when every new USB device they plug in gives an ultra generic warning asking to connect?

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#92

Post by [deleted] »

eviks wrote: post #57
detaro wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

see the links acdha posted for what it's supposed to protect against - devices that are not the devices you think they are.

I see the links. They explain nothing - the user will just accept this useless prompt and will not notice the unnoticeable "when you least expected it, typed in a malicious payload right under your nose, ideally quickly enough for you to not even notice."

[deleted]

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#93

Post by eviks »

acdha wrote: post #83
eviks wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not foolproof Then don't use a fool picking up USB keys from the ground to argue for this act of a security theater! > gives people the opportunity to notice a problem But it doesn't do that because constant nagging dulls the senses. Also, how do you expect the users to learn that he needs to be on the alert for keyboard mimics? Is there an emphasis on this in the warning? > long-term fix is securing the USB p…

> Then don't use a fool picking up USB keys from the ground to argue for this act of a security theater! I didn't. Note the scenarios I gave included other things. Here's a good list to consider: one of your devices can be compromised in some other way (e.g. an IoT device which uses WiFi normally but charges or gets firmware updates over USB, a device which can be attacked via WebUSB & suborned), you have a friend /…

> I didn't.

You did: "the OS vendor can’t know whether you’d pick up a USB key you find on the ground"

> Note the scenarios I gave included other things.

Sure, but also the thing I explicitly called out. Your other two examples fall into my second argument (though question re. the last one - are you certain the exploit necessarily triggers the prompt again for an already approved device?)

> Here's a good list to consider:

It's not a good list since it doesn't address the point that the popups for these would mostly be auto-accepted and even when read carefully would not convey the seriousness of the potential issue. What kind of family members do you imagine that would realize the device is compromised in your scenario of getting this prompt when plugging in for charging?

> Just how frequently do you connect new USB HIDs? The system doesn't re-prompt devices you've used before so it's less “constant nagging” than “a couple of times over the lifetime of the device”.

"Just how frequently do you get OS popups?" is the more relevant measure. Also, you've ignored the second point that is relevant regardless of frequency

> You appear to be having a very emotional reaction to this change – looking at your comment history shows a lot of anger and

Your ability to psychoanalyze is even worse that your ability to explain the supposed security benefits of this measure and...

> at least one time where you're angrily asking that Apple implement the current behaviour.

nope, you misunderstood that as well, didn't ask for it

So I'd suggest you get off the road of ad-hominems - it doesn't advance the argument (and also against HN guidelines)

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#94

Post by brundolf »

I love the new settings app, it makes better use of space than the old one. The old one had the menu as a separate screen, so you'd have to click "into" a section and then click back out to see others. Now I can see both at once!

Even the menu itself is more space-efficient because it's a column of line-items instead of a grid of huge icons, it's great

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#95

Post by WillAdams »

roxgib wrote: post #16

Every tech journalist moans about Macs lacking touch screens, but I really hope it never happens. Touch interfaces and desktop interfaces are fundamentally different and having both just forces a lot of compromise. But it seems like Apple gets that and is just unifying the experience a bit rather than paving the way for touch screen MacBooks, at least I hope.

I wish that tech journalists would also take Apple to task for so limiting access to styluses.

Currently using a Wacom One w/ my MacBook 13" as a 3rd display (in addition to a 4K 27") and the stylus is quite nice (bonus that it's the same as for my phone (Galaxy Note 10+) and e-book reader (Kindle Scribe) and it's quite nice to be able to draw/annotate at will --- missing Calligrapher, née Rosetta, which was the handwriting recognition from the Newton MessagePad.

Apple is just going to look ever more out-of-synch as touch becomes ubiquitous, and less innovative as designs such as Lenovo's dual-screen Yogabook 9i reach the market. Once upon a time, the Compaq TC-1000 was described as a product which Apple would make -- what could Apple do in this design space?

Is forcing the user to have a second device for touch, and then not allowing touch to function fully when using Sidecar a valid approach in the marketplace?

If Apple would do a dual-screen device like to the Yogabook 9i which supported the Apple Pencil, and made an iPhone which did as well, I'd sell all of my current devices (except for the Kindle Scribe) and buy in to it.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#96

Post by WillAdams »

barnabee wrote: post #32

Not sure about “worst” but I really hate that they’ve made the menu bar taller than the notch on the MacBook Pro— why on Earth would you do that?! I also don’t love the new settings app or the trend toward highly graphical, touchscreen style bundled apps, but I can ignore most of them so it’s not a huge deal.

Doesn't this depend on the UI size one sets the screen to?

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#98

Post by cafeinux »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #88
ClassyJacket wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note... why do the MacBooks even have a notch considering: A) FaceID is tiny now, look at the iPhone 14, and B) No Mac has FaceID anyway. What's in there apart from a tiny camera and light sensor? There's no way those two things can take up that much space.

It's to allow the fingers someplace safe to apply leverage against when opening the lid. Which is why I think the screen is so much more fragile then the previous model. Lots of users don't care about placing their fingers in the right spot and stress-wear the LCD.

That sounds like bad UX.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#99

Post by eastbound »

wolverine876 wrote: post #6

Critical, hyperbolic judgements like this one, and also calling yourself 'controversial', are commonplace, mundane, cliches on the Internet. Why are people still taken in by this form of rhetoric? I'd expect people to be immunized by now.

Because we agree with the result and enjoy someone pulling Apple into the furnace.

Unfortunately, like tweeting “No to war”, it has zero effect.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#100

Post by ultrarunner »

RedShift1 wrote: post #23
siva7 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread clearly shows that even in 2023 people still don't understand USB attack vectors and still think this is some evil move by Apple to degrade the user experience

I understand what's going on but how does asking the user for permission help? They're just going to click accept, ok, whatever to continue working. I doubt the user will even understand what's going on.

It's not hard for a device to reenumerate with a different device descriptor. With Ventura that needs confirmation, which is probably the right response.
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