Live data from Hacker News

How likely is losing a Google account?

jefftk.com

31–40 of 305 posts

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#31
Given the low likelihood of this happening (for Google, Fastmail, Outlook, etc.) it's really not worth thinking that much about this. My approach is to have a custom domain and forwarding to another provider.

Gmail -> Outlook forwarding iCloud Photos -> OneDrive

etc

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#32
post #17

Overall good analysis but this one quote is kinda crazy if you think about it "I put a little effort into avoiding grey areas (not filing chargebacks to Google, not taking pictures of my kids in the bath) but otherwise don't worry about this."

Downright dystopian world we've created for ourselves. Don't anger your corporate overlords, and don't do anything that could even remotely be conceived as not Thinking Of The Children. Or, how to pave the path to hell.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#33
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, perhaps, you decide against self-hosting, but still want a reasonably good solution, consider owning your domain but buying a hosted mail service. You own the MX records, so you can point it to a service and change it in the future if you need to (without fiddling with setting up a new mail host). Say you use XYZ mail provider, but they shut down for business. You can buy mail hosting from someone else within a d…

Is it possible to „own“ a domain? I thought domains are basically rented. If you don’t pay (or payment fails), then u lose your domain.

Well, yes, it's something you are technically renting. There has to be a balance between cost and convenience. If there was a lifetime fee to own it, think of all the domains that would be already bought up - there'd be barely any left. However, in almost every case, there is nothing that will get your domain taken from you, unless you fail to pay or break the domain registrar's TOS (copyright infringement, etc). Far higher bar than Google's AI deeming you bad.

And regarding failed payments: My registrar at least emails me 30 days in advance, will email in case of failure, and will not put the domain up for sale until after a grace period (IIRC at least a week), during which they will repeatedly attempt to contact you.

Also, even if you can't own it: that's true of self-hosting also and doesn't apply to just purchasing hosting

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#34

This reminds me, again, that I should look into setting up my own home mail server. Is there an off the shelf solution for this? I don't mind setting up another PC as a server for this, but how hard is it?

If, perhaps, you decide against self-hosting, but still want a reasonably good solution, consider owning your domain but buying a hosted mail service. You own the MX records, so you can point it to a service and change it in the future if you need to (without fiddling with setting up a new mail host). Say you use XYZ mail provider, but they shut down for business. You can buy mail hosting from someone else within a d…

Thank you! I've owned my name in domains for over 20 years, it was the first domain purchase I ever made. I want to be able to store the mail etc. locally. OPs post reminded me of the guy who sent a photo of his child to their doctor and was locked out of his gmail account. I've heard of similar incidents with even less evidence and reason and it worries me. Making the switch to my own domain and hosted mail server would hopefully solve that.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#35

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

2) Why in the world would Gmail get shut down? The veins of treasure to be mined from within the user's emails are vast and endless. It is quite simply a mother lode. The only bigger source within their direct control is the search input screen.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#36

This reminds me, again, that I should look into setting up my own home mail server. Is there an off the shelf solution for this? I don't mind setting up another PC as a server for this, but how hard is it?

I would split it into two parts. First and most critical, is to set up your own address in a domain you control. As long as you control the address you can move it between providers. Then you can decide whether to self-host (which I would not) or use a commercial service.

The problem with home-hosted email is, as most folks said many times, that an email sent from a non-major provider would be marked as spam at best and dropped at worst.

My personal solution is to use my own domain, but have mail delivered by protonmail. This is an inexpensive option in a Swiss jurisdiction with generally sane laws. I maintain a copy of all emails on my home system, so if I wanted to switch from protonmail to a homegrown solution or another provider I can easily restore the same IMAP state there. And I would obviously keep the same email, so will not need to notify anyone of any email changes.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#37
post #8
post #2

Okay, so it's not very likely. What made me transition away from Google/Gmail as my identity provider was pondering the question: How screwed am I if I get locked out of my Google account? The answer: Well, if you're on Hacker News, you may have a chance of reaching a human. But if you broke a policy, good luck. I'm paying $5/mo. for that to not be that screwed. (I have family who got locked out. It does happen.)

I'm not sure I understand.. where do you pay $5/mo for a service similar to Gmail? Or do you mean you have a paid Google account with extra storage?

Fastmail!

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, perhaps, you decide against self-hosting, but still want a reasonably good solution, consider owning your domain but buying a hosted mail service. You own the MX records, so you can point it to a service and change it in the future if you need to (without fiddling with setting up a new mail host). Say you use XYZ mail provider, but they shut down for business. You can buy mail hosting from someone else within a d…

Is it possible to „own“ a domain? I thought domains are basically rented. If you don’t pay (or payment fails), then u lose your domain.

If the answer is no, then your hosting choice doesn't matter at all.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#39
post #29

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

"I can reach a human" is a huge security vuln. I don't want people social engineering my identity provider.

An extremely underrated (and insightful) point to consider.

More generally, how do you actually get a measure of risk between two providers, when the absolute frequencies of measurable events are very low?

It seems plausible to me that FastMail could have 10x or 100x the level of security incidents as GMail, and it would still net out to an undetectable difference in the number of public complaints.

If we had internal data… but of course we don’t.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#40
Google is too good not to roll the dice. I use Gmail in my own domain with a different registrar. Push comes to shove, I'll move, restore backups, and carry on.

But damn are non-Google ecosystems bad. At work we use m365 and everything is atrocious compared to Google. Loggin in is a mess, email search is dreadful, OneNote search unhelpfully defaults to searching the current pagwe, integration with Android is weak, Outlook Calendar never seems to do what I want it to and doesn't seem to handle location in any sane way... I could go on but every time I switch to my private machine and Google-first setup, it's like a weight has been lifted.

Post reply on HN