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Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

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Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#81

Post by blitzar »

logifail wrote: post #33
icepat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Active listening is something I'm completely incapable of doing in a traditional way. When I have an activity in front of me, for example code or an interesting task, I listen better and am more engaged. When I was younger, I had a specific teacher who'd assume I was not paying attention, and ask me to answer often. Much to his surprise, I was fully engaged and able to respond. It's just a different learning style. I…

> I had a specific teacher who'd assume I was not paying attention, and ask me to answer often. Much to his surprise, I was fully engaged and able to respond In school I spent many (un)happy hours gazing out of the windows of the class due to sheer boredom. Q: Are you able to comment on how the pace of learning is for you? Too slow / just right / too fast? Once I got to University my learning style quickly evolved in…

> Hard to tune out of a lecture when you are literally writing everything down, at speed.

Hard to actually consume the contents of a lecture when you are frantically trying to reproduce a powerpoint slide and transcript of what someone is saying in real time.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#82

Post by baremetal »

bayindirh wrote: post #38
danpalmer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I used a laptop full time in school from 16-18 (and then at university too) and found it much more productive. My notes were better and more usable. For younger children I think everyone agrees that it's important to be teaching computer skills, and that requires computers. Having rooms of desktop computers is arguably outdated, and a poor use of space, so many schools have switched to trolleys of shared laptops…

I have been using computers since I'm 7-8, and I used it to play games, take notes, study, etc. Yes, teaching computer skills is important, but crippling their writing and adding a tool into the classroom which can steal their focus faster than anything else is not a productive way to do it. Have classes which needs computers, and classes which ban them during class hours. Being able to focus on a piece of paper with…

>I still design software on paper prior to implementing it, and I can see the whole thing much clearer and better.

I do the same thing.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#83

Post by troupe »

citizenkeen wrote: post #18
shadowgovt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what end? In a professional environment, the last time I wrote on paper is when my computer was in for maintenance. That's like having students use hand-slates in the era of paper.

Writing notes by hand has been proven to increase understanding and retention. Unless we’re giving kids OCR tablets, they’re learning less taking notes on a keyboard.

To support your claim see Mueller & Oppenheimer's research from 2014. The big issue is that while the laptop lets people capture MORE of the words said, the process of filtering is how the mind consolidates information. Taking notes require you to decide what to leave out and that is what helps you remember.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#84

Post by blitzar »

31337Logic wrote: post #31
lynx23 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you suggest instead? Write on stone tablets?

False dichotomy. Nice try.

The introduction of the roller ball pen over the traditional quill almost certainly was met with the same "wont somebody think of the children"

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#85

Post by Retric »

moron4hire wrote: post #64
Retric wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School should be preparing people for the “real world” after graduation. Learning to think on the computer is a useful skill and 6th graders US (11 year olds are year 7 in UK) have had half a decade of paper instruction. So making the jump at 11 is perfectly reasonable. Chromebook is simply cheap to buy and manage. The point of these is a simple tool, little different than a calculator. If Google offends you feel fre…

I think this vastly overestimates the difficulty in learning how to use a computer. How is it that entire generations of people were able to get through school with no computer classes whatsoever and still able to invent computers, the internet, the very software you're using to talk with us right now? Decades of research in interface design have gone into making computers easy to use, user friendly, and accessible.…

Learning how to use a computer is like learning how to use a pen. It’s not binary there is a huge difference between knowing how to say surf the web and actually know how to use it for research.

Carpentry a great analogy as you can learn the basic skills to build a perfectly functional house in a few weeks. However, you can literally spend a lifetime mastering it. So, let’s not pretend the bare minimum of computer literacy is all there is to know.

Anti Vax people for example have fundamental issues with knowing how to utilize computer technology. They where ill prepared to separate fact from FUD and it’s causing real problems. Having 11 year olds writing papers that get graded is a great way to transition kids from basic literacy into mastery.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#86

Post by jefftk »

blackhaz wrote: post #19
Overtonwindow wrote: post #4

I hope I don't sound like a Luddite, but I don't think kids should have chrome books, or any type of laptops in school...

Getting Chromebooks to schools is the single most horrific act we could have done to our education system. This act undermines the very future of our nations. A big proportion of all the classwork and homework is now done on the screen. There is plenty of evidence that handwriting boosts cognitive processes - thinking on paper is something that the next generation will mostly lack. Rich and powerful are all aware of…

> Rich and powerful are all aware of that, so they deliberately put their own kids into private schools where screen exposure is more limited.

I bet both of these go the other way:

* While some rich and powerful people are anti-screen, I expect it's more common for them to want their kids using computers in school so they're better prepared.

* Private schools are more likely to have laptops and other tech, because they can afford it. While you get the occasional story about a fancy school that is trying to minimize tech, "poor school has no laptops because they're too expensive" doesn't make the news.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#87

Post by troupe »

danaris wrote: post #44
madoublet wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think everyone agrees.

So, what, you think that children should have to figure out computers for themselves? That only the geeky ones (who are likely to poke at stuff and learn that way) should actually have a clue how to use computers? Or is it that you think parents should be teaching this—which guarantees it's only going to be taught to the children of the reasonably well-off? Welcome to the 21st century, where it's widely beneficial fo…

I don't know. The family I've seen that don't give their kids unrestricted access to the internet have no problem keeping them off of social media.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#88

Post by DharmaPolice »

I wouldn't have a career in IT if I hadn't spent many hours at ages 11 to 15 trying to get round my schools network security. My logon was frequently disabled for misuse and I was even suspended for a couple of days once but I learnt more that way than in any class I've ever taken.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#89

Post by joxel »

troupe wrote: post #87
danaris wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what, you think that children should have to figure out computers for themselves? That only the geeky ones (who are likely to poke at stuff and learn that way) should actually have a clue how to use computers? Or is it that you think parents should be teaching this—which guarantees it's only going to be taught to the children of the reasonably well-off? Welcome to the 21st century, where it's widely beneficial fo…

I don't know. The family I've seen that don't give their kids unrestricted access to the internet have no problem keeping them off of social media.

That they know of. I did a lot of things my parents didn't approve of or know of.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#90

Post by asah »

moron4hire wrote: post #64
Retric wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School should be preparing people for the “real world” after graduation. Learning to think on the computer is a useful skill and 6th graders US (11 year olds are year 7 in UK) have had half a decade of paper instruction. So making the jump at 11 is perfectly reasonable. Chromebook is simply cheap to buy and manage. The point of these is a simple tool, little different than a calculator. If Google offends you feel fre…

I think this vastly overestimates the difficulty in learning how to use a computer. How is it that entire generations of people were able to get through school with no computer classes whatsoever and still able to invent computers, the internet, the very software you're using to talk with us right now? Decades of research in interface design have gone into making computers easy to use, user friendly, and accessible.…

LoL watching over-50s using computers is pretty painful...
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