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Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

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Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#291

Post by chimprich »

collyw wrote: post #286
chimprich wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand the rush to defend vaccines. It's because they've been among the most successful medical treatment in history. For example, smallpox alone killed up to half a billion people in the 20th C and we managed to eradicate it. > In 5 years, the vaccines might be death in a vial. Or they might be completely benign. You'll only know after 5 years. This isn't how biology works. You don't just have drugs th…

How many vaccines have actually been subject to proper long term trials? Sure VAERS is a self reported system, but long term monitoring isn't actually done in any meaningful sense. Hygiene and sewage systems have saved far more than vaccines did.The diseases that we eradicated were already in massive decline before vaccines were introduced. Viruses usually mutate to milder but faster spreading strains. It is heresy t…

> The diseases that we eradicated were already in massive decline before vaccines were introduced.

The only human disease we've ever eradicated is smallpox. But semantics aside...

Here's a graph of polio cases in the US.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates...

The polio vaccine was introduced in the 50s. Please explain how polio was in "massive decline" before then.

> Hygiene and sewage systems have saved far more than vaccines did.

Whether that's true or not (feel free to provide data), it's irrelevant. Vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives.

> Viruses usually mutate to milder but faster spreading strains. It is heresy to say so though.

It's not heresy, but it's wrong. You're propagating an idea from the 19th Century. It's not considered correct any longer. It's at best a very simplified view.

If it were true, humans would be untroubled by viruses, but clearly that is not the case. Viruses evolve to spread effectively; as long as they spread faster than they kill their victims they continue to spread.

Flu regularly comes up with strains that are more dangerous than previous years, the 1918 pandemic being a case in point.

Polio didn't become less mild. Lots of other viruses have not.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#292

Post by candiodari »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

I think the disease does draw a link. I don't find it particularly surprising that after 2 years of a stay-at-home order infarcts of all kinds are going up.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#293

Post by collyw »

landemva wrote: post #222
Timon3 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The experimental products don't prevent infection or transmission, so whether or not coronavirus itself has impact on cardiovascular function is not relevant to whether or not the vaccines do as well. You are presenting this as a binary option. Either the vaccines fully prevent infection & transmission, or they don't. But what if they reduce the severity of the infection, lowering the likelihood of cardiovascular i…

> there is a definitive difference in likelihood of injury/death between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated I have looked at a lot of data for children and haven't seen that. It seems children's deaths are mostly unaffected from the virus. What studies have you read which show excess deaths in children?

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality

You can see there. Up substantially in 2022, there is a widget at the side to add in previous years.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#294

Post by collyw »

kelipso wrote: post #44
faeriechangling wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I’m saying vaccines are so plausibly the culprit you would want to immediately subject them to analysis as to if they are the cause of the trend asap, but a natural consequence of any such analysis is you are very likely to do the opposite and rule them out as a cause.

Okay...I think I sprained a couple of nerves from these gymnastics but has anyone actually explicitly ruled out vaccines as the culprit of this?

Not heart attacks, but Scotland is investigating a rise in neonatal deaths, which correlates with the vaccine rollout, yet has decided that it's definitely not the vaccine. Science at it's finest. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23259523.expert-review-m...

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#295

Post by ajsnigrutin »

chimprich wrote: post #290
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on... this is not some physicst on a kids show, explaining how GPS works and skipping relativity.... ...This is the director of CDC in a time of a huge pandemic and also a time when semi-mandatory vaccination policies were implemented everywhere, telling people directly, that if you get vaccinated, you won't carry the virus and/or get sick. This is (was) no time for imprecise explanations, it was a time when…

> telling people directly, that if you get vaccinated, you won't carry the virus and/or get sick As a high level description, getting vaccinated means you won't get sick is not an unreasonable explanation, given they were 90%+ effective at the time in reducing symptoms. > you were literally getting forced to get vaccinated Really. Which country is this where literal forced vaccination was carried out? I don't believe…

"reducing symptoms" is something different than no symptoms at all and not carrying the virus.

> Really. Which country is this where literal forced vaccination was carried out? I don't believe any Western country implemented this. You appear to be spreading blatant lies while whinging about slight imprecision in a single transcript of a real-time interview.

Ok, "literally forced" was maybe a too-strong of a wording, but "forced to get vaccinated or lose your job" was a thing in many countries. For mine (slovenia) it's hard to find english articles of what you were unable to do if unvaccinated, but here are examples for usa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_mandates_...

We can talk about technicalities of what "forced" means, but many people are/were not in a (financial) state to be able to survive without their jobs, and had to get vaccinated to keep them. Technically you're not forced, because you could choose not to eat and be homeless, but for most people that's a bad choice.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#296

Post by ajsnigrutin »

soundnote wrote: post #267
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was saying that "stuff old people do" was not limited/forbidden for unvaccinated, while "stuff young people do" was. Mostly because old people don't do a lot (except for stay at home, socialize at other peoples homes, go to the store, doctor, pharmacy)... in turn, if an old person stayed unvaccinated, it did not affect their day-to-day life. Even cufew, after 21h/22h, old people are usually home then. But we did cl…

Where I live, they forced bars to close if they were serving alcohol - you could serve mocktails and stay open all night. It's a wondrous germ, it knows what you're drinking. Meanwhile the restrictions on cafes where old people gather during the day were much more lenient. It's just nuts.

Yup... alcohol for your hands when you enter... and no alcohol for your mouth when you're inside :)

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#297

Post by kelipso »

collyw wrote: post #294
kelipso wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay...I think I sprained a couple of nerves from these gymnastics but has anyone actually explicitly ruled out vaccines as the culprit of this?

Not heart attacks, but Scotland is investigating a rise in neonatal deaths, which correlates with the vaccine rollout, yet has decided that it's definitely not the vaccine. Science at it's finest. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23259523.expert-review-m...

Haha yeah, mother's vaccine status not checked, they don't know why it is happening, but definitely can't be the vaccine, wouldn't want to cause a scare you know.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#298

Post by dang »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #11
rhaway84773 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering older age groups tend to be more vaccinated than the 25-44 cohort and they haven’t seen as much of a rise as the 25-44 cohort it’s pretty clear it’s Covid and/or stressors related to the pandemic. The fact that you’re even considering the vaccine when we’ve been hit by a pandemic that is known to devastate organs shows that the anti-vaxxers have been unfortunately effective in their messaging.

[flagged]

Please don't post flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#299

Post by ImaCake »

lamontcg wrote: post #101
ImaCake wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know, but it’s not like there is much of a choice here. We are all going to be exposed to covid no matter what we do.

Well doing your best not to catch it before there was a vaccine and then getting vaccinated will best improve your chances. But I was more referring to everyone in this thread speculating about obesity, vaccines and everything other than the novel pandemic virus with the thrombotic complications that swept the globe that just MIGHT have something to do with the rise in heart attacks. Which was pretty much predicted b…

Oh yeah. I agree with this. I am just frustrated by people saying we still need to keep avoiding COVID when the cost is much higher to continue doing so.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#300

Post by ImaCake »

collyw wrote: post #288
ImaCake wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cant easily compare between geographically or culturally different populations as there are just too many factors to reckon with. This is a big problem in population genetics because these factors confound the already difficult to measure links between genetics and traits.

Edward Dowd points out that one group where these problems are not increasing is the unemployed. Many people took the vaccine to stay in employment. Many other quit employment to opt out of the experimental treatment.

The health and demographics of unemployed people differ in very meaningful ways from the employed.
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