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Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

nytimes.com

311–320 of 357 posts

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident Stuff of nightmares.

Or in a wall of a building: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_radiological_accide...

Thats a horror story, but the actual horror is society picking not up on this until its too late for alot of lifes. This is one of the incidents, that a centralized health system with data mining could have picked up easily.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#312
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op, or an expert on radiation poisoning, but, one can receive a lethal dose of radiation in an instant (and be condemned to certain death) but not die for weeks. Credentials: I've read about the demon core[0] and watched Chernobyl on HBO. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core

Or months if your family/the doctors prolong your suffering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accidents#Im...

The family was just clueless and it would have been the job of the doctors to tell them the truth. But they wanted to use the rare case for some scientific glory.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any recommendations for detection at home? Are wearable dosimeters enough to detect before damage occurs? ...or if there is already a crowdsourced detection effort for looking out for this sort of thing, that'd be a cool map to plot.

Yes, I recommend mine ;) ... the "Better Geiger S-1" In the budget price range (~$150 and under) my detector, which uses a solid scintillator, and a traditional Geiger tube based device are really the only options worth considering. The pros of my detector are high range (max 20 mSv/hr vs typically 1 mSv/hr for common Geiger tubes), roughly 3x higher X-ray/gamma sensitivity, and automatic energy-correction of dose ra…

Do you have any partner company in Europe that would help with reducing shipping costs for individuals?

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#315
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting algorithm problem. Given the parameters to maximize detection and minimize time/resources, how would you direct a drone or something to find the capsule? How would that change with 2 drones? 4? 8? As many drones as there are flyable Geiger counters in the country?

You'd pretty much start with a local radiometric survey company (there are a few in Perth) using a 50 litre doped sodium iodide cyrstal pack (a bit heavy for a drone) and scintillation counters in a crop duster flying at 40 m ground clearence dead centre down the road at 70 m/sec for the full 1,400 km road length. Post process the 256 value gamma spectrum, correcting for cosmic, aircraft signature, remove the mean av…

What literature would you recommend to better understand these procedures?

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#316
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op, or an expert on radiation poisoning, but, one can receive a lethal dose of radiation in an instant (and be condemned to certain death) but not die for weeks. Credentials: I've read about the demon core[0] and watched Chernobyl on HBO. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core

Or months if your family/the doctors prolong your suffering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accidents#Im...

Ah yes the man with no DNA. Stuff of nightmares.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#317

Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…

Any recommendations for detection at home? Are wearable dosimeters enough to detect before damage occurs? ...or if there is already a crowdsourced detection effort for looking out for this sort of thing, that'd be a cool map to plot.

SafeCast? https://safecast.org/ - they have a map, too, but it's a mostly-boring "normal background" with a couple of "normal slightly elevated background" where local geology matters.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd pretty much start with a local radiometric survey company (there are a few in Perth) using a 50 litre doped sodium iodide cyrstal pack (a bit heavy for a drone) and scintillation counters in a crop duster flying at 40 m ground clearence dead centre down the road at 70 m/sec for the full 1,400 km road length. Post process the 256 value gamma spectrum, correcting for cosmic, aircraft signature, remove the mean av…

What literature would you recommend to better understand these procedures?

If you're interested:

Guidelines for radioelement mapping using gamma ray spectrometry data International Atomic Energy Agency (2003)

https://www-pub.iaea.org/mtcd/publications/pdf/te_1363_web.p...

Or go full Aussie, Aussie, Oy, Oy, Oy

https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/disciplines/geophysi...

and read the three publications linked at bottom and get the high res A0 wall map for the dorm room !

( A GUIDE TO THE TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR AIRBORNE GAMMA-RAY SURVEYS Grasty + Minty

https://d28rz98at9flks.cloudfront.net/14861/Rec1995_060.pdf

and the other two )

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#319
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting algorithm problem. Given the parameters to maximize detection and minimize time/resources, how would you direct a drone or something to find the capsule? How would that change with 2 drones? 4? 8? As many drones as there are flyable Geiger counters in the country?

I wonder if analog dosimeters might be a better way to narrow down the search area more cheaply and quicker to set-up. Fly or drive a run. Check dosimeter. Dunno if there's enough energy expected to set it off at the expected speeds travelled. Obviously they don't go "ding ding ding". Might find some spurious beta-radiation sources? https://www.uth.edu/safety/radiation-safety/personal-radiati...

It comes down to SNR, like most searches...and it's not very high in this case.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#320
The capsule was not lost through cartoonish buffoonery, but through an almost cinematic series of events. According to the authorities, the sensor containing the capsule was placed inside a wooden box, which was screwed onto a pallet and placed in the back of a flatbed truck. They believe that vibrations from the truck caused the sensor to shake apart and also dislodged a mounting bolt, leaving a hole in the bottom of the box. The capsule is believed to have fallen out of the sensor, through the bolt-hole, onto the surface of the truck, and bounced off into the road.

I kept reading articles looking for this information, questioning what process could have possibly lead to this "surely it wasn't just standalone, surely it was in some form of lead box or something." This finally answers my question but leads to even more questions: Why is it just hanging out in the flatbed of a truck in a box? Does the driver know they're hauling something radioactive? Did nobody consider that this might happen?

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