Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…
This is an interesting algorithm problem. Given the parameters to maximize detection and minimize time/resources, how would you direct a drone or something to find the capsule? How would that change with 2 drones? 4? 8? As many drones as there are flyable Geiger counters in the country?
Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
301–310 of 357 posts
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#302Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#303Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…
> Getting closer, like putting it directly against your torso, would mean serious health effects in a matter of minutes. Let’s hope that some random person doesn’t find it and turn it into a necklace or something. The TNG episode “Thine Own Self” comes to mind.
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#304Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…
Any recommendations for detection at home? Are wearable dosimeters enough to detect before damage occurs? ...or if there is already a crowdsourced detection effort for looking out for this sort of thing, that'd be a cool map to plot.
In the budget price range (~$150 and under) my detector, which uses a solid scintillator, and a traditional Geiger tube based device are really the only options worth considering.
The pros of my detector are high range (max 20 mSv/hr vs typically 1 mSv/hr for common Geiger tubes), roughly 3x higher X-ray/gamma sensitivity, and automatic energy-correction of dose rate for better accuracy in realistic scenarios. I also think the design is pretty robust and user-friendly, people seem to like it.
A traditional Geiger tube has some pros also. The only ones worth getting in the budget range, in my opinion, are the GQ GMC type (there are variants but most are basically the same). They are a little cheaper and they have more bells and whistles like data logging. Another pro is that they have higher beta sensitivity, but that's a con also. Antiques like uranium glass and fiestaware are primarily low energy beta emitters so my detector reacts very weakly but a Geiger tube reacts very strongly. That's a con also, though, because when measuring dose you should NOT measure beta, so it means traditional Geiger tubes dramatically overestimate dose rate when they are exposed to beta (a common mistake among beginners).
Just please don't buy any of the super cheap import detectors that have suddenly appeared on the market in the last year or so, they are all terrible.
At higher prices (~$400 and up) there are a lot of different options with pros and cons, it just depends what the intended applications of the detector are.
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#305Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…
If a critter moved it or ate it then it's probably gone forever. At a distance of 1 meter the dose rate from that source is already not extremely hazardous unless a person were exposed for an extended period of time (like a full day or two). Getting closer, like putting it directly against your torso, would mean serious health effects in a matter of minutes. Bit of contradiction in your statement here? If putting it…
First of all, this part is not necessarily common knowledge but serious health effects does not mean incapacitated, and in the case of radiation it usually means effects that come on in the days/weeks following exposure, at least for humans. Animals can have different radio-sensitivity.
Regardless of that, a critter could easily travel a few hundred meters or more in a matter of minutes!! The search area then grows enormously. Total game changer.
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#306Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…
That's good to know, some useful context: tldr: It's going to take a while The search area is immense. People (even locals) fail to understand the incredibly vast distances. Sure, you can think up a comparison from your own context of a few hundred kms... but does your example have nothing, and I mean, literally nothing manmade but the road infrastructure itself in the proximity of the horizon for sometimes hundreds…
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#307Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…
If a critter moved it or ate it then it's probably gone forever. At a distance of 1 meter the dose rate from that source is already not extremely hazardous unless a person were exposed for an extended period of time (like a full day or two). Getting closer, like putting it directly against your torso, would mean serious health effects in a matter of minutes. Bit of contradiction in your statement here? If putting it…
a) by moving more than 1 meter per minute.
b) You should not read "serious health effects" as "instant death" where radiation is concerned. There is usually a lag time between radiation exposure and consequences. At low doses, this is "likely cancer, years later". But I think you'd still call that "serious health effects" if it happened to you.
At higher doses the consequences are "radiation sickness, days or hours later", which is plenty of time to disperse the source.
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's good to know, some useful context: tldr: It's going to take a while The search area is immense. People (even locals) fail to understand the incredibly vast distances. Sure, you can think up a comparison from your own context of a few hundred kms... but does your example have nothing, and I mean, literally nothing manmade but the road infrastructure itself in the proximity of the horizon for sometimes hundreds…
I really don't follow this narrative. Yes it's hot and remote and it's a 1400 km road. All of those things are clear. It's still very easy to put sensitive detectors inside a vehicle and drive along the road. These are uncommon and fairly expensive devices but there are plenty of them around. If the source is on or near the road it will be found that way pretty easily.
The road is mostly sealed (Perth (State Capital City) -> Mt Newman (Big hub town in Pilbarra)) with a short tail end road of maybe 50 km to the site in question that'll be probably graded gravel - rough, bumpy, but essentially flat.
With five days gone it's already been flown and driven .. at this stage they're either looking at trace signal and indications the slug has gone well off route in a truck tyre OR doubling back to see if any site workers flying out pilfered it as a souvenir and flew out to Thailand for a holiday since.
Also: the Kimberley is not like the moon.
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#309When I read the summary I thought they were going to say someone flogged it.
Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny
#310On one hand, the capsule is described as being highly dangerous - to the point of even causing radiation burns on the skin. On the other hand, for a transport route that takes several days, it's NOT put into any form of sealed, shielded or lead-lined container - but just stuck to another item (where it can come off through vibrations) which in turn is carried around in a wooden box? Isn't that a health risk to the tr…
The cab driver several meters away and with material (including the equipment material likely made to absorb and block radiation) between him and the capsule will be exposed for several orders of magnitude less radiation than the person who includes it in their necklace.