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Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

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Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#51
post #8

Freifunk should work fairly easily; take 2-3 2X2 MIMO routers (like 20 bucks each), adjust the firmware for them, get the P2P directional link to either use existing satellite dishes (not sure what the easy orthomode splitter is, here, as you need same-source-spot signals for both horizontal/vertical or left/right polarization), or simple DIY'd axial helix antennas (made on plastic/cardboard tube of appropriate diame…

What do you think of Yggdrasil to handle mesh routing? I know it has "flapping" issues (connecting and disconnecting the root node rapidly), though that was somewhat mitigated, and need to control the root (compute/"mine" a suitable key) first.

Ideally, we'd have Wi-Fi NAN (Wi-Fi Aware/Neighbour Awareness Network) on all devices (including routers, smartphones), discovering devices close by and allowing Yggdrasil to work on top. That's very recent though. I blame Apple keeping AWDL proprietary.

Some of that can probably be approached by connecting handsets to multiple networks at once (the chips usually support it, but I don't know about the OS).

In the end, in this case it's probably better to ask a local ISP for cooperation (ask for a part of their spectrum, and put 4G antennaes and local 4G to Wi-Fi APs). It can still be meshed together.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#52
Check out the stories section on the Ubiquiti forums: https://community.ui.com/stories

Lots of great ideas in there - even if you decide to not use their gear. They pioneered repurposing Intels otherwise failed wimax for long range links in lue of microwave. The other nice thing about Ubiquiti is you get really nice management platforms for "free" - included with the cost of the equipment. There is much to be said for being able to see all your radios and links within a nice, convenient dashboard.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#53
Someone else mentioned 802.11ah. This might be a better option for cheap hardware than normal wifi, which is quite hard to use beyond 1km reliably.

Existing point-to-point solutions would be even better but I am sure you (some other comments also point to this direction).

I also want to add that at low datarates like 0.1Mbps, you probably can't just bridge it to the internet and expect it to work well. You'll want to be careful about who and what access is allowed. 0.1Mbps is plenty for relaying messages point-to-point for multiple users, but even one user searching google or using slack will saturate it. A few users trying to load gmail will probably not work at all.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#54
Here a cheap reseller of Ubiquiti / Mikrotik / TPLink / ... based in Poland: https://www.ip-sa.com.pl (not affiliated, have been a customer since 2011)

Even if you don't buy from them it can give you an idea of what exists, some price ranges and availability. Some outdoor devices (small router + integrated antena + pole mount + weather proof) can be cheaper than a raspberry pi alone, example the TPLink CPE605 cost ~40€ without taxes.

Look for hardware that is supported by OpenWRT, so that all community firmware should work.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#55
post #14

Take a look at AREDN, the Amateur Radio Emergency Digital Network -- https://www.arednmesh.org . They use commercial WiFi gear (see https://www.arednmesh.org/content/supported-platform-matrix ) with custom firmware, running on the adjacent ham radio bands (which have less noise on them, allowing for greater distance, although I wouldn't be surprised if the WiFi bands and radio bands have different allocations in Euro…

Just as a note: you can easily configure AREDN to not use non-ISM channels.

Regarding custom firmware: yeah, but it's really openwrt with some CGI scripts. If you're not trying to specifically join their preexisting networks, you can accomplish everything it does off of vanilla openwrt with not much effort. I think understanding what's actually going on under the hood in networking terms is valuable enough to skip the preconfiguration, though I guess that depends on the exact deployment case. If this isn't intended to be used militarily in any way and is just putting up infra in rear areas, maybe that doesn't matter.

This post ended up a bit more negative than I intended, so I should say that I have successfully used AREDN (or similarly configured openwrt) on Ubiquiti APs with yagis to do more or less what the OP is asking for, and it works pretty well. This is overall a good suggestion.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#56
Here are some things I collected:

1.) Raspberry PI Zero antenna mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqaKZLIqFg

2.) Cheap DIY Antennas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPt-sw3kvw0

Be sure to check out this guys whole youtube channel (@andrewmcneil), he is awesome and its about DIY antennas (from cheap to expensive with real in depth tests)

3.) There also is a ready to use but expensive product from Ubiquity called "Air Fiber" for high performance connections over long range. See LTT for more details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9P_R-ApD-g

Some general hints:

- Reliability and a stable connection are probably even more important than just range, so reliabale hardware and a stable drivers are mandatory

- That's why I would not order too many devices at once but just check out, how they work (especially TPLink is known to have problems here, although their devices are best for the buck)

- If you could purchase devices, I would probably take a look at the recommended devices section on OpenWRT (https://openwrt.org/toh/recommended_routers) or try to buy bigger batches of used devices for real cheap money

- In the near future I would probably check out the GL.iNet GL-MT1300, which is cheap and small or maybe TPLink Archer A10, both with mediatek chips

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#58

Reach out to various existing infrastructure projects that build and maintain large community-owned P2P WiFi deployments, the two largest ones are Freifunk and Guifi. They would surely be able to and wanting to help you, if you reach out to them. Try https://freifunk.net/en/contact/ and https://matrix.guifi.net/ Most of them are using commodity hardware from Mikrotik, Teltonika and Ubiquiti. Basic setup for a persona…

Another community project:

https://airjaldi.com/

They build and maintain long link wifi connectivity for villages in India.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#59
post #22

Reach out to various existing infrastructure projects that build and maintain large community-owned P2P WiFi deployments, the two largest ones are Freifunk and Guifi. They would surely be able to and wanting to help you, if you reach out to them. Try https://freifunk.net/en/contact/ and https://matrix.guifi.net/ Most of them are using commodity hardware from Mikrotik, Teltonika and Ubiquiti. Basic setup for a persona…

A curiousity about Ubiquiti firmware. It seems like the AP firmware is based on openwrt

it is but in the worse way possible.

They take and contribute nothing back. just a base to get up and running quick in their startup days.

Also most of their own pieces is just a awful api/shell that tries very hard to simulate the worse of cisco ios shell.

Re: Ask HN: What's with the DIY state of the art long-range Wi-Fi?

#60
post #48
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A curiousity about Ubiquiti firmware. It seems like the AP firmware is based on openwrt

And IIRC a lot can be flashed with openwrt too!

their NICs will not work with regular kernel drivers. you will lose the only edge their hardware have which is dealing with a stupid large number of clients.

everything else (speed, uptime, ram/cpu power, beanforming magic, etc) you are better off with linksys devices when using open source drivers.

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