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Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

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Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#231

Post by vgt »

landemva wrote: post #208
autoexec wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media. In research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35582622/ In media: https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/fda-restricts-jjs-covid-19-vac... I'll be generous and suggest that your doctor misunderstood your question. VAERS is a nationwide data collection program being used to collect evidence for the advers…

> The possible risks of these vaccines are not being ignored Several years after initial outbreak, I wonder if continuation of the emergency use authorization can be justified, or if it continues because it allows the medical establishment to not be liable for realized risks. Possible risks don't matter to manufacturers, because nobody is liable for injury.

What do you mean by "continuation of emergency use authentication??". They're all fully approved by the FDA by now [0]:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#232

Post by ding_dang »

UIUC_06 wrote: post #217

Shortcut for reading these comments: if anyone says "conspiracy theory" or "anti-vaxxer" you can stop reading them right away. They're just ideological warriors. Being scientists, we can design a longitudinal test (of these two groups, identical otherwise, one vax'ed and one not, did the vax'ed have more side effects?) that answers the risk question pretty definitely. Then all the data people trot out can just be exa…

[flagged]

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#233

Post by UIUC_06 »

ding_dang wrote: post #232
UIUC_06 wrote: post #217

Shortcut for reading these comments: if anyone says "conspiracy theory" or "anti-vaxxer" you can stop reading them right away. They're just ideological warriors. Being scientists, we can design a longitudinal test (of these two groups, identical otherwise, one vax'ed and one not, did the vax'ed have more side effects?) that answers the risk question pretty definitely. Then all the data people trot out can just be exa…

[flagged]

Yes, better not look at the data, because that's what the Bad People do.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#234

Post by CyberDildonics »

swayvil wrote: post #212
CyberDildonics wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to take your fragmented sentences more seriously than the fact that 12.7 billion vaccine doses have been given out world wide as of october of last year. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-glo...

(criticizing my grammar? Really?) I refer to my own experience while you refer to a secondhand news-product. Consider the difference.

Bloomberg actually has a github page where they show all their data.

https://github.com/BloombergGraphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-d...

I've seen a thousand vaccinated people have no negative health effects at all. I've also seen some vaccinated people win at a casino after being vaccinated. We can conclude that the covid vaccines are not just safe, but increase luck as well.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#235

Post by kosherhurricane »

nyrulez wrote: post #21
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? A…

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines?

Because antivaxxers don't want to have a nuanced discussion of pro and cons of any vaccine. This iteration is "mRNA is new so it's bad". But it's always been the same and ends with "vaccine is bad" for them. It's not possible to bring a reasonable discussion to someone who will happily throw out reason to accept their own preconceived conclusions.

> In my own case, I had significant cardiovascular issues at a relatively young age, 1 week after I got my booster.

Even before the vaccine, it was clear that covid triggers cardio events in some people, even young. Even three years in, it's not clear why that is. So it's plausible that a vaccine's spike protine could trigger an event, above the background level. The question then is, does the vaccine trigger cardio events at a higher or lower rate than getting covid?

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#236

Post by incrudible »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #178
incrudible wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it was just an assumption that vaccines would be "safe enough", despite no mRNA vaccine having ever been rolled out at scale. The "profit" issue disappeared with COVID vaccines. You now have the FDA proposing annual COVID boosters and combined mRNA-COVID/Influenza shots for everyone, whereas European countries are age-restricting COVID boosters. If that doesn't smell like regulatory capture to you, you might s…

You’re saying a lot to dodge the fact you made a claim using a source that doesn’t actually back your claim. You claimed this article showed mrna vaccines weren’t widely distributed because they weren’t considered safe. But this article isn’t saying that and all, and you’re misrepresenting it.

I never made this claim. I said the technology had safety issues, which the article supports. In the following paragraph, I claim that mRNA vaccines were assumed to be safe enough due to the lower dosage. Again, the article supports this.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#237

Post by kosherhurricane »

nyrulez wrote: post #34
autoexec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? I don't believe that anyone has completely ruled out vaccines. I think that's a boogeyman conspiracy theorists tell each other "The possible risks from vaccines are forbidden from being considered or talked about!". It's attractive to conspiracy minded people to have secret suppressed information that "they" don't want yo…

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. If I was rolling out a new vaccine at the national level, this is the first thing I could collect to be able to make conclusions either way. And it's not a complicated thing to collect too. Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger peop…

> Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger people in last two years. Is that due to covid or due to vaccination?

You can look at countries with young populations with low rates of vaccination before the first infection, say South Africa.

The data points to it being due to covid.

> That itself suggests either bias or complacency to me. > Would you be against data collection? It's not implying anything.

The data is being collected. In countries like the UK and Israel where government knows the vaccination status of 100% of the population, you can do very precise studies.

You ARE implying something.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#238

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

nyrulez wrote: post #21
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? A…

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines?

Because it's a distraction from (in the deliberately misleading sense) the more relevant question: rule in or rule out the role of actual COVID-19.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#239

Post by incrudible »

Timon3 wrote: post #184
incrudible wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it was just an assumption that vaccines would be "safe enough", despite no mRNA vaccine having ever been rolled out at scale. The "profit" issue disappeared with COVID vaccines. You now have the FDA proposing annual COVID boosters and combined mRNA-COVID/Influenza shots for everyone, whereas European countries are age-restricting COVID boosters. If that doesn't smell like regulatory capture to you, you might s…

> Again, it was just an assumption that vaccines would be "safe enough", despite no mRNA vaccine having ever been rolled out at scale. Why is this a criterium we should pay attention to? If you never roll anything out, you'll never have data about a roll out. So instead we do studies and statistical analyses. Are you aware of any studies that "normal"/previous vaccines had to go through, which mRNA COVID vaccines did…

I'm not aware of any approved vaccine where the observation period in the RCT was a mere four months and the control group was vaccinated thereafter. If there is another such vaccine, I would be hesitant to take that one as well.

There's no controlled experiment to suggest that mRNA vaccines provide a survival advantage to a healthy individual. The brief RCTs certainly don't support it. The increased cardiac risk, small as it may be, may well put the vaccine into negative benefit territory for some, but we'll probably never know for sure, because none of our data is robust enough to draw such conclusions.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#240

Post by pffft8888 »

"Such readthrough events would not only decrease the number of immunogenic proteins, but also produce a longer protein of unknown fate with potentially deleterious effects."

Go past the abstract (which is worded politically) and read the actual research then tell me why we should not be worried that the first deployed version of the mRNA code may have an error in it, like all code that's released in a rush. LOL.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310186/

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