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Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

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Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#181

Post by absentmoon »

newsclues wrote: post #163
headsoup wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it's not 'desperate to link them to vaccines,' but that it is 'desperate to find any reason at all before even looking at vaccines.' Considering the distrust of both Pharma and government (both sides) that preceded the vaccines and the 'heart attack' issue, it is quite astonishing the level of support seen for dismissal of them possibly causing anything. And especially as they're a novel vaccine. I don't mea…

It seems as though if people were desperate to prove the vaccines were safe and effective, there would be more open and exhaustive research into any and all potential harms from the vaccines. If something is safe and I am confident in the safety, I will do any and all testing to prove so and request others do the same.

"any and all testing?". Are you aware of the flat earth movement? For some of their members, no amount of evidence is enough. The goal posts always move. I suspect the same applies here.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#182

Post by autoexec »

spacephysics wrote: post #177
autoexec wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you believe that all those censored, shadow-banned and deplatformed people are just the conspiracy nuts with lies and fake data? It'd be impossible to make that claim. I couldn't possibly be aware of all of the people who have been censored/shadow-banned/deplatformed for talking about the risks of vaccinations, but I do suspect that the vast majority of them likely were (intentionally or otherwise) spreading…

If you look at the twitter files released by Matt Taibi it indeed confirms there is collusion among former twitter and numerous government entities. It’s no conspiracy, there’s straight emails of the government asking for XYZ list of accounts to be suppressed. https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/14/editorial-t... You further had the suppression of the Hunter biden laptop in DMs and tweets, because governmen…

The fact that governments do actually engage in censorship doesn't mean that everyone who posts about the real or possible risks of the covid vaccines get their posts censored or that people whose posts about the risks of covid vaccines were removed, were removed because of goverment censorship.

Even in the case of twitter. Here: https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1536697529454272512

There's a tweet about the risks of covid vaccinations. If the government, twitter, or both were censoring discussion of the risks of covid vaccinations how does that exist? How do the countless other uncensored and easily searchable posts that do the same thing exist?

Isn't it more likely that if a post about the risks of covid vaccinations does get removed that it's for a reason other than because of an attempt to hide information about, and prevent discussion of, the risks of covid vaccinations?

Who do you think is telling people they can't talk about the risks? We're doing it. It's talked about all the time everywhere. It's researched every day. The media reports on it to the public. Nobody thinks that there aren't any risks. Whatever oppression exists in the world, "preventing people from talking about or learning about the risks of covid vaccines" is not an example of it.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#183

Post by ivan_gammel »

nyrulez wrote: post #37
autoexec wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. What is your evidence that there is zero data being collected on this? What is your evidence that we refuse to collect this data? I can prove that the issue is being considered along with every other side effect experienced by people taking th…

1. My doctor(s) (in USA) told me so. They were not aware of any data collection around this and my condition. I did explicitly ask them. 2. Where is this data? If it's being collected, we should be able to see it or clear conclusions from it? It's a very simple data set too. I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media.

>1. My doctor(s) (in USA) told me so.

Looking at general condition of healthcare systems around the world, I would never put 100% confidence into what one or a few doctors say. They are just people with ordinary motivations and beliefs, not always committed to stay informed about the progress in their fields, not always having time etc. Their observation probably comes not from reading scientific papers, but from experience of working with the healthcare system bureaucracy that may distribute information or collect data, or may not. This won't be any evidence of nothing happening.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#184

Post by Timon3 »

incrudible wrote: post #157
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused by your link. It describes Moderna trying to use a drug to produce a liver enzyme and that was never safe, so Moderna ended up lowering their expectations with the safer and less profitable vaccines . If anything it shoes vaccines are the way to go with mRNA and the primary issue is profit.

Again, it was just an assumption that vaccines would be "safe enough", despite no mRNA vaccine having ever been rolled out at scale. The "profit" issue disappeared with COVID vaccines. You now have the FDA proposing annual COVID boosters and combined mRNA-COVID/Influenza shots for everyone, whereas European countries are age-restricting COVID boosters. If that doesn't smell like regulatory capture to you, you might s…

> Again, it was just an assumption that vaccines would be "safe enough", despite no mRNA vaccine having ever been rolled out at scale.

Why is this a criterium we should pay attention to? If you never roll anything out, you'll never have data about a roll out. So instead we do studies and statistical analyses. Are you aware of any studies that "normal"/previous vaccines had to go through, which mRNA COVID vaccines did not? If so, could you please share them?

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#185

Post by incrudible »

justsomeadvice0 wrote: post #175
incrudible wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would also speculate cardiovascular issues in mRNA COVID19 vaccines (which are real certainly) have something to do with spikey proteins in your bloodstream... All COVID vaccines deliver spike proteins into your bloodstream, but not all of them substantially raise the risk of Myocarditis. > ...and one can imagine what a more prevalent spikey virus might do to the same person. Imagination is not enough, we're goin…

> Imagination is not enough, we're going to need some hard data Yes and I literally agree with you in my post. The problem is, as you admit, that data exists to point toward either conclusion; then you immediately speculate that the difference must be because: > these cases tend to be biased towards health care settings

Unless you get 100% of infections tracked, the risk from COVID will always be measured to be higher than the true risk. That part is not speculation.

Also, if a large study measured no effect, there likely is no effect, even if troves of smaller studies disagree. Publication bias.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#187

Post by atdixon »

absentmoon wrote: post #181
newsclues wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems as though if people were desperate to prove the vaccines were safe and effective, there would be more open and exhaustive research into any and all potential harms from the vaccines. If something is safe and I am confident in the safety, I will do any and all testing to prove so and request others do the same.

"any and all testing?". Are you aware of the flat earth movement? For some of their members, no amount of evidence is enough. The goal posts always move. I suspect the same applies here.

Bad analogy. The flat earth theory isn’t novel.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#189

Post by Timon3 »

linuxftw wrote: post #164
boc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, exposure to a novel coronavirus which has been proven to cause serious cardiovascular issues even in healthy individuals. I’d probably start there.

The experimental products don't prevent infection or transmission, so whether or not coronavirus itself has impact on cardiovascular function is not relevant to whether or not the vaccines do as well. We know for a fact at this point the products cause cardiovascular injury. That's not really up for debate. So now we need to understand the extent. Some of us believe it's higher impact than others. One side was caught…

> The experimental products don't prevent infection or transmission, so whether or not coronavirus itself has impact on cardiovascular function is not relevant to whether or not the vaccines do as well.

You are presenting this as a binary option. Either the vaccines fully prevent infection & transmission, or they don't. But what if they reduce the severity of the infection, lowering the likelihood of cardiovascular injury by more than they increase it by? Suddenly your point is fully moot. And considering that there is a definitive difference in likelihood of injury/death between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated one seems much more likely to be true.

> One side was caught actively suppressing information, so there's no reason to trust them.

No matter which side people are on, they'll say this about the other side. If you're on the right you'll likely believe the left censors information on injuries. If you're on the left you'll likely believe that the right censored information on COVID mortality and dangers. What point do you think you're making with this kind of vague allegation?

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#190

Post by diydsp »

bsaul wrote: post #89
virtualritz wrote: post #66

That reminds me of [1] which has disappeared/was deleted but was archived in [2]. > We’re living in the golden age of cocaine,” said Toby Muse, the author of the 2020 book Kilo: Inside the Deadliest Cocaine Cartels [...] I'm sure both are unrelated coincidences (heart attacks and cocaine availability and the disappearsce of this article). [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/golden-age-cocaine-happening-... [2] https:/…

i've always wished someone did a study on the usage of cocaïne among politician and the impact it had on their policies. I suspect a lot of overreacting, impulsive and careless decisions were taken while under influence.

glad you mention this. i have a similar concern about stimulant use at ivy league schools. it's not just about getting stuff done, like mowing a lawn. it impacts expectations of what people can tolerate.
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