Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

khon2.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 311 posts

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#171

Post by hotpotamus »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #133
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

I don't understand the rush to defend vaccines. I've been vaccinated and don't regret that because in those circumstances, they were a positive health choice. But it's impossible to know the long-term impact of any medicine unless you've actually studied it, well, long-term. In 5 years, the vaccines might be death in a vial. Or they might be completely benign. You'll only know after 5 years.

I have to say that's a pretty good trick to never have to do anything. Like I should probably take out the trash, but who knows, I might get killed by a car veering off the road while I put it out. Or sure I'd go to the gym, but I might get killed by a weight falling off a machine or something; better not to risk it. I'll probably be using this is in the future.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#172

Post by somewhereoutth »

For some context as we discuss this:

The pandemic (any pandemic really) is an existential disaster for the libertarian right, for it invalidates their ideology that people should be allowed to do whatever they like and somehow it will all work out for the best [for me]. Thus their response is (and really can only be) two fold:

1) deny that it is happening, and if that fails

2) deny that there is anything that can be done about it anyway - by undermining, obstructing, and discrediting the attempts by the rest of us to deal with it.

Posts here should be understood in that light. Indeed, we can already see a mix of denialism (people are fatter nowadays) and obstructionism (it was the vaccines/lockdowns that did it)

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#173

Post by [deleted] »

nyrulez wrote: post #34
autoexec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? I don't believe that anyone has completely ruled out vaccines. I think that's a boogeyman conspiracy theorists tell each other "The possible risks from vaccines are forbidden from being considered or talked about!". It's attractive to conspiracy minded people to have secret suppressed information that "they" don't want yo…

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. If I was rolling out a new vaccine at the national level, this is the first thing I could collect to be able to make conclusions either way. And it's not a complicated thing to collect too. Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger peop…

[deleted]

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#174

Post by roundandround »

headsoup wrote: post #142
nyrulez wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? A…

Exactly, it's not 'desperate to link them to vaccines,' but that it is 'desperate to find any reason at all before even looking at vaccines.' Considering the distrust of both Pharma and government (both sides) that preceded the vaccines and the 'heart attack' issue, it is quite astonishing the level of support seen for dismissal of them possibly causing anything. And especially as they're a novel vaccine. I don't mea…

It seems to me like a lot of people want to start with a positive intervention being to blame. I can sort of see the logic with vaccines for diseases not everyone would catch without the intervention but in general there's a disregard for what mistakes you are making when your choice is a bad one instead of a vaccine.

Obviously the timing is wrong here for a vaccine to cause things before roll out. Novel virus causing a subject heart damage is a known thing. Other interventions were bad for heart health. The states with less vaccination had more exposure to vaccine alternatives and more heart events.

The argument then becomes that pharma suspicious states just always have worse heart health. So the suspicion is overblown or heart health doesn't really matter? We just want vaccines to be better than moms cooking because we like mom more than big pharma?

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#175

Post by justsomeadvice0 »

incrudible wrote: post #160
justsomeadvice0 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You linked to an article wherein the company itself deemed its own research into a different mRNA-type vaccine for a separate disease as not yet safe for human trials. This sounds like the type of caution you want to see from a vaccine research company. Personally I would speculate the much larger "part of the issue" was that there was never any real need to seek authorization for mRNA vaccines in the US before COVID…

> I would also speculate cardiovascular issues in mRNA COVID19 vaccines (which are real certainly) have something to do with spikey proteins in your bloodstream... All COVID vaccines deliver spike proteins into your bloodstream, but not all of them substantially raise the risk of Myocarditis. > ...and one can imagine what a more prevalent spikey virus might do to the same person. Imagination is not enough, we're goin…

> Imagination is not enough, we're going to need some hard data

Yes and I literally agree with you in my post. The problem is, as you admit, that data exists to point toward either conclusion; then you immediately speculate that the difference must be because:

> these cases tend to be biased towards health care settings

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#176

Post by null_object »

arghnoname wrote: post #87
nyrulez wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did look at https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html btw. It seems to have great intentions. I have no idea about the level of compliance since it's purely voluntary it seems. I would love to see the data around clots, which btw that page doesn't seem to list as a condition to be reported.

As you note, the VAERS database is voluntary and probably misses many conditions that aren't associated with a vaccine when undergoing treatment. I accept that taking medicine, any medicine, imposes risk for adverse events. What's crazy to me is we just underwent widespread inoculation of a brand new type of vaccine technology that has never been used in humans before, meant to inoculate us against a disease that nev…

> COVID was never very dangerous for young people…

An ex-colleague who is now 31 (or 32) who was running the Stockholm marathon in 2018 and 2019, got Covid very early in 2020, and suffered a massive pulmonary embolism which took him months to fully recover from.

This was before the vaccines were available, of course.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#177

Post by spacephysics »

autoexec wrote: post #147
headsoup wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What world have you been living in to miss all the documented reality of the government and co censoring, deplatforming and manipulating social/traditional media to reduce that. You're painting a very rosy picture of reality here. Unless you believe that all those censored, shadow-banned and deplatformed people are just the conspiracy nuts with lies and fake data?

> Unless you believe that all those censored, shadow-banned and deplatformed people are just the conspiracy nuts with lies and fake data? It'd be impossible to make that claim. I couldn't possibly be aware of all of the people who have been censored/shadow-banned/deplatformed for talking about the risks of vaccinations, but I do suspect that the vast majority of them likely were (intentionally or otherwise) spreading…

If you look at the twitter files released by Matt Taibi it indeed confirms there is collusion among former twitter and numerous government entities. It’s no conspiracy, there’s straight emails of the government asking for XYZ list of accounts to be suppressed.

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/14/editorial-t...

You further had the suppression of the Hunter biden laptop in DMs and tweets, because government entities stated it was Russian disinformation, while after the convenient time of election cycle, they admit it’s real. What’s the consequence of the intelligence community signing a document stating that it was truly some subversion campaign by Russia, when it was actually a lie to get social media companies to remove politically damning evidence?

https://nypost.com/2022/11/21/cbs-confirms-hunter-biden-lapt...

I fully hear the balanced argument you’re proposing, and to some extent agree, but both sides currently have different sets of blinders on as to what’s reality, and that to me is a scary scenario

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#178

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

incrudible wrote: post #157
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused by your link. It describes Moderna trying to use a drug to produce a liver enzyme and that was never safe, so Moderna ended up lowering their expectations with the safer and less profitable vaccines . If anything it shoes vaccines are the way to go with mRNA and the primary issue is profit.

Again, it was just an assumption that vaccines would be "safe enough", despite no mRNA vaccine having ever been rolled out at scale. The "profit" issue disappeared with COVID vaccines. You now have the FDA proposing annual COVID boosters and combined mRNA-COVID/Influenza shots for everyone, whereas European countries are age-restricting COVID boosters. If that doesn't smell like regulatory capture to you, you might s…

You’re saying a lot to dodge the fact you made a claim using a source that doesn’t actually back your claim. You claimed this article showed mrna vaccines weren’t widely distributed because they weren’t considered safe. But this article isn’t saying that and all, and you’re misrepresenting it.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#179

Post by spaceman_2020 »

newsclues wrote: post #168
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Sitting at home absolutely destroyed my health. I got a cervical disc bulge, gained nearly 10kgs in weight, had weird pains and aches in random body spots. It's the worst I've felt in ever. On a normal day during the pandemic, I would get like 1500 steps in. Before the pandemic, walking to/from the metro alone would take up nearly 8k steps. Total would easily be 12k+ steps. It was a drastic reduction in acti…

As someone that got COVID in March 2020, and was pretty active before. It took some time to recover, but I continued getting exercise, despite being a studio apartment dweller. But after a shook COVID, I stopped listening to the news and government that said going outside was dangerous and got my walking in and continued to go out for fresh air. I have fully recovered from COVID, and have actually lost weight (food g…

A lot of my physical activity was almost automatic. I would walk to/from the metro. On the way back, I would stop by the gym. It was all momentum.

Covid killed all that momentum. And anytime I would get into a groove, a new round of lockdowns would put a giant pause on it. The gyms and parks were closed during all the multiple waves.

I would workout at home but it was just not enough activity - every hour long workout was followed by 23 hours of sitting/lying down. Whereas in a normal day, an hour long workout would be followed by a walk to the metro, walking around in the office, walking to the local market…way more motion.

Worse, there was nothing much to do except sit around and look at screens. No going out for drinks, no weekends at the park, no chatting around after gym.

I could have made some better choices, admittedly though.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#180

Post by unvaxxed_sperm »

kossTKR wrote: post #106
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

Vaccines in general is probably one of the most important discoveries of modern science but i find it quite bizarre that people put so much trust into a very unique fasttracked process and pharma companies that have a very visible history of deception and fraud. 7 pharma companies got "reprimanded" by the EU after the last 2010 flu pandemic because of astroturfing and "using a crisis to profit from vaccines" that the…

[dead]
Post reply on HN