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What is Google doing with its open source teams?

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Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#251

Post by GuB-42 »

spinningslate wrote: post #23

I've no inside knowledge on Google, so can't comment on the rationale for selecting those being let go. From the outside though, Google under Pichai increasingly looks like Microsoft under Ballmer in the late 2000s/early 2010s. Balmer was lauded for delivering good numbers from a dominant market position. That was fine - until it wasn't. Under his watch, Microsoft completely misjudged the internet and totally missed…

> Google has stagnated with Pichai at the helm. The profit drop is indicative of that. There's only so long you can keep milking the same cow.

How can companies the size of Google not stagnate at some point? Economically, they are at the scale of not-that-small countries, bigger than that and they take over the world. Maybe that's indeed Pichai's fault but no matter who is at the helm, stagnation must happen, and sometimes, just being able to slow down the fall enough so that the company can recover later when the stars align is the best thing to do, though not the most exciting.

Unlike Google, Facebook tried something. They went "Meta", going all-in on AR/VR, and that make me hate Facebook/Meta a little bit less (but only a little, I am still angry about the Oculus-Facebook account tie-in thing). This is a genuine attempt to break from stagnation, but unfortunately, and at least for now, it looks like "milking the same cow", would have been a better decision for the health of the company.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#252

Post by [deleted] »

gumby wrote: post #243
nvarsj wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME, having worked with "tech celebrities", the veneer they can work so hard on maintaining isn't exactly reflective of actually working with them. I worked with one particularly famous person, who barely did anything internally, and spent all their time on external conferences and talks to preserve their external reputation - mostly coasting on past accomplishments. Not saying that's what happened here, but public v…

> IME, having worked with "tech celebrities", the veneer they can work so hard on maintaining...Not saying that's what happened here... I know both Chris and Jeremy well and I wouldn't imagine either of them trying to "maintain a veneer"

[deleted]

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#253

Post by jedberg »

bagacrap wrote: post #234
jedberg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, you know that "used an algorithm" in modern parlance means "was done by AI without human intervention". And based on that, absolutely I think Google did that. They run everything with data and statistics without humans. That's how they are so efficient. This is backed up by the fact that the managers who work there were simply told who they were losing and had no input into the process, and aren't even awa…

I think this is a ridiculous take. Just because Google uses algorithms to handle millions of queries without human intervention does not mean they use algorithm in HR. Do you also believe Google's hiring process is devoid of human intervention? Managers were not informed because there are so many of them at Google that it would have leaked long before the process was over. The process was conducted manually by 750 di…

> Do you also believe Google's hiring process is devoid of human intervention?

No, of course not. But that doesn't say anything about their firing process. Also they brag about their people analytics team and how they manage their people with the same automation that they manage other parts of the business. So it's not that ridiculous of a take. Especially when you consider how much automation they use in the parts of their business that should use humans, like customer service.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#254

Post by AStellersSeaCow »

bagacrap wrote: post #236
dehrmann wrote: post #184

There's no story here beyond well-known people on the open source team getting laid off and botching the layoffs with people learning their badges don't work. One is a valid strategic decision, the other is sloppy, neither is evil, or even all that interesting.

I would take it a step further and deny that the layoffs were botched. How are you supposed to broadcast this information such that everyone learns at the same time and in the right way? Of course badges stop working when you're let go. What possible good can come of leaving the badges on? All it takes is one in 12000 disgruntled ex-employees to make it not worth it.

Yeah, I hate the way they were conducted but can't think of a better way that wouldn't open the company up to a lot of risk.

I'm not convinced that announcing them in advance is actually better anyways. We have partner teams in Europe who get to spend a month or more after the announcement worrying about whether or not they still have a job. Morale on the teams in the US took a noticeable hit, but the teams in EU have seemed utterly miserable for the last week.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#256

Post by taeric »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #217
bbor wrote: post #36

As a google employee (who obviously has no privileged info) I really don’t buy this whole activist-investor explanation for the layoffs. Besides the fact that the investors in question own I’m much more convinced by the argument that they saw this sector-wide wave of layoffs as an opportunity to scare their engineers and change the culture to be a more intense, hierarchical one. Google engineering culture has long be…

> If my guess is right, it worked, to say the least; the internal culture is best characterized as “terrified” and “stunned” How is it terrified and stunned when one of the top-voted questions at the all-hands that came immediately after the layoff was whether Sundar is going to take a pay cut.

That isn't exactly a hardball question. Honestly, if it wasn't something that was already known either way, that is already a miss at that level. Especially in contrast to the way that Tim Cook handled the same idea.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#257

Post by Quarrelsome »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #238
Quarrelsome wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you suggesting that they are intentionally scaring their staff in order to increase productivity? What management school is this thesis from?

it's not to increase productivity, it's to increase compliance and push down salary bands. Have you forgotten this is the same company that had a backroom non-poaching pact with Apple (and probably other SV firms) a decade ago? And got caught red handed and got in a shitload of trouble for it? When I joined Google in 2011 they were still dealing the fallout from that.

> it's not to increase productivity, it's to increase compliance and push down salary bands.

Its as if someone has forgotten that they can increase revenue instead.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#258

Post by uoaei »

theturtletalks wrote: post #167
mardifoufs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze has been consistently better, especially for traffic rerouting. It's also way better at letting you know about road events, like accidents, than Google Maps. Maps is better to search stuff on a map, but for navigation, it is so barebones (and not even in a good minimalist way). I'm not sure how GMaps can still lag so far behind when Waze is also owned by Google.

They run them as separate teams and don’t necessarily collaborate. Marking Police traps had been on Waze for years and Google Maps just got it last year.

Which is still insane to me.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#259

Post by indigodaddy »

cdibona wrote: post #244
indigodaddy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember him from The Screensavers as a teenager!

This is pretty much the only comment I'm going to reply to (I'm technically a google employee until march 31st) and just say how pleased I am to see this. The Screensavers was so much fun to do, Leo, Morgan and the crew were just terrific, and made it very easy for me to look like I knew what I was doing. Thanks for watching!

And you and all those guys are what made a lot of us feel like there was a community out there for us— so thanks very much as well!

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#260

Post by thedorkknight »

downrightmike wrote: post #93
bbor wrote: post #36

As a google employee (who obviously has no privileged info) I really don’t buy this whole activist-investor explanation for the layoffs. Besides the fact that the investors in question own I’m much more convinced by the argument that they saw this sector-wide wave of layoffs as an opportunity to scare their engineers and change the culture to be a more intense, hierarchical one. Google engineering culture has long be…

It is a Capital Revolt. Workers were getting too comfortable, and now Money is teaching them a lesson

We got a little blip in human history where employers were forced to treat their employees like actual people. Was nice while it lasted. Back to having a boot stomping on our faces again...
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