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What is Google doing with its open source teams?

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Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#201

Post by Quarrelsome »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #114
sombragris wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but then, why fire such rockstars as Di Bona and Allison?? These are not coasters. AT&T and whatever company inherited the Bell Labs might have done rounds after rounds of layoffs but never fired Dennis Ritchie, for example. People such as DiBona and Allison are assets to any company who can afford to hire them. This is simply unexplainable.

Because that in particular will freak everyone else in the company out, and .. most importantly... Google is no longer scared about those people going to their competition, because their competition is also flushing talent away. In the past, Google was willing to dump all sorts of cash into talent as long as it kept people from creating a truly competitive landscape. Now, they don't have to worry as much. The layoffs…

are you suggesting that they are intentionally scaring their staff in order to increase productivity? What management school is this thesis from?

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#202

Post by AStellersSeaCow »

drblastoff wrote: post #199
AStellersSeaCow wrote: post #189

Current Googler, I have no insider info at all, found out about this the same Friday morning as everyone else. Everything expressed here is speculation based on my own observations and conversations with HR leaders at Google and other companies involved in this round of industry layoffs. It's unfortunately not surprising that some current and rising stars in the open source world were impacted by this. There's an imp…

> layoffs _must_ be done without regard to performance Do you have any citation for this? I’ve never heard this before, and a quick search pulls up many sources that contradict this.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/layoff.asp

First sentence: "A layoff is the temporary or permanent termination of employment by an employer for reasons unrelated to the employee's performance."

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#204

Post by drblastoff »

AStellersSeaCow wrote: post #202
drblastoff wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> layoffs _must_ be done without regard to performance Do you have any citation for this? I’ve never heard this before, and a quick search pulls up many sources that contradict this.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/layoff.asp First sentence: "A layoff is the temporary or permanent termination of employment by an employer for reasons unrelated to the employee's performance."

A layoff is motivated by business reasons, but where does it say that performance can’t be considered when deciding who gets cut and who stays?

“Sometimes, job performance does play a role, too; for example, if a company has to fire one-third of its sales force, those with the lowest numbers will almost certainly be more on the chopping block than those with higher numbers.” - https://work.chron.com/decides-employee-gets-laid-off-12311....

“Nondiscriminatory employee selection criteria should be developed and used to select the employees who will be laid off. Common factors used to identify criteria are seniority, redundant roles, skills based criteria or other clearly delineated standards. Performance criteria may be used and employers may consider previous performance reviews and other performance documentation” - https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/hr-...

“Microsoft Uses Layoffs to Push Underperforming Employees Out” - https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-layoffs-managers-p...

“They will often assess the work performance of team members and rank them against their coworkers using a curve (a practice known as stack ranking) in order to retain the top performers, all while identifying and weeding out lower performers.” - https://www.dice.com/career-advice/how-companies-decide-who-...

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#205

Post by sombragris »

HideousKojima wrote: post #118
sombragris wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about Fuchsia? The primary value I see for it is that it looks like the un-Linux, especially in the license space. Google really hates copyleft and the GPL.

I mean if Fuchsia ever starts getting used for production at some point by anyone, anywhere. Seems like more of a way to do systems research by Google than something designed for real world use.

If that was the case (an academic exercise in systems research, nothing for the real world), then arguably a strong copyleft license such as GPL would have been even better.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#206

Post by granshaw »

eecc wrote: post #135
bbor wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this comment; this is exactly my opinion but expressed much more clearly.

Precisely. I saw it coming last year with all that print wasted on the "great resignation" and the "WFH revolution". It's the post-COVID Restoration.

The EBITDA Enlightenment

The ROIC Renaissance

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#207

Post by sombragris »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #114
sombragris wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but then, why fire such rockstars as Di Bona and Allison?? These are not coasters. AT&T and whatever company inherited the Bell Labs might have done rounds after rounds of layoffs but never fired Dennis Ritchie, for example. People such as DiBona and Allison are assets to any company who can afford to hire them. This is simply unexplainable.

Because that in particular will freak everyone else in the company out, and .. most importantly... Google is no longer scared about those people going to their competition, because their competition is also flushing talent away. In the past, Google was willing to dump all sorts of cash into talent as long as it kept people from creating a truly competitive landscape. Now, they don't have to worry as much. The layoffs…

That would put me on notice that it is not worth working for such a company and I'd start sending résumés to various recruiters. No matter how you would explain this, it is nothing short of idiotic.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#208

Post by oblio »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #201
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that in particular will freak everyone else in the company out, and .. most importantly... Google is no longer scared about those people going to their competition, because their competition is also flushing talent away. In the past, Google was willing to dump all sorts of cash into talent as long as it kept people from creating a truly competitive landscape. Now, they don't have to worry as much. The layoffs…

are you suggesting that they are intentionally scaring their staff in order to increase productivity? What management school is this thesis from?

The management school of stupidity, which in practice is met a lot more than any other management school, even at top tier companies.

The more I read about this stuff, the more I realize that a lot of is out of sheer luck of hitting product market fit. Google monopolized open internet ads 20 years ago and except for protecting their moat they haven't done much else, 90% of their money still comes from there. They're trying to expand with the cloud, but they're a distant 3rd or 4th.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#209

Post by rurp »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #114
sombragris wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but then, why fire such rockstars as Di Bona and Allison?? These are not coasters. AT&T and whatever company inherited the Bell Labs might have done rounds after rounds of layoffs but never fired Dennis Ritchie, for example. People such as DiBona and Allison are assets to any company who can afford to hire them. This is simply unexplainable.

Because that in particular will freak everyone else in the company out, and .. most importantly... Google is no longer scared about those people going to their competition, because their competition is also flushing talent away. In the past, Google was willing to dump all sorts of cash into talent as long as it kept people from creating a truly competitive landscape. Now, they don't have to worry as much. The layoffs…

This reasoning seems plausible to me, but it seems to be having the opposite on employees from what I have seen. Why invest yourself in a company that will fire thousands of people for petty reasons? I think this will cause many employees to shift more focus on how to look good on paper, versus doing actual interesting or useful work that might fly under the radar.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#210

Post by jejones3141 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #136
spinningslate wrote: post #23

I've no inside knowledge on Google, so can't comment on the rationale for selecting those being let go. From the outside though, Google under Pichai increasingly looks like Microsoft under Ballmer in the late 2000s/early 2010s. Balmer was lauded for delivering good numbers from a dominant market position. That was fine - until it wasn't. Under his watch, Microsoft completely misjudged the internet and totally missed…

The three Google products I use most frequently - Gmail, Search, Maps - have been underperforming heavily lately. Search is useless unless you really tailor your query to find organic results (throwing in "reddit.com" is almost a necessity). Gmail frequently lets harmful spam slip through, sometimes even tagging it with an 'important' label. The decline in Maps has been the most visible, mostly because it has negativ…

A week or so ago I was freaked out when some Google app nudged me with a link to email that said I needed to return a defective heatsink/fan by a certain date to avoid being charged for it. I looked, and found the email saying they'd gotten it; I had already sent it. If it's going to look for things like that, it should look for evidence that it's already been taken care of.
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