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Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

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Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#311

Post by scoofy »

PessimalDecimal wrote: post #25

> People are noisy as fuck and dont seem to give a shit. Seems like every night there's someone with loud as exhaust on "sportish" car ripping around the neihborhood. For months this guy would start up his loud car at 7am and no one care when I complained. > Police seem to not give a shit anymore. I've noticed what seems to be total lawlessness going on in my world. Folks stealing shit. People driving absurdly danger…

I mean I think the existence of new tech makes it harder to enforce. In the 80's there was an issue with noise on the subway when boomboxes became popular, but they were heavy and expensive to operate. With smartphones and bluetooth speakers, literally anyone on the subway can annoy the rest of the train car with minimal effort. In fact, it takes a bit more effort now (remember headphones, or mute phone), to actually be accommodating to your fellow travelers.

I honestly subscribe to the maxim that humanity doesn't really change, it's our ability to view and be affected by humanity that that increases over time. This works in both directions. It's much easier for someone to annoy me on the train, but it's also much easier for me to learn full-stack development on youtube.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#312

Post by AussieWog93 »

uneekname wrote: post #177
keiferski wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respect for other people, general social norms, polite behavior, personal dignity, and in general just a respect for one's appearance and a desire to make "civilization" aesthetically appealing. People seem to enjoy living in beautiful buildings with green parks nearby, without pollution or noise, and yet somehow think dressing like a slob or putting zero effort into one's appearance is unimportant. To be honest, if…

I try not to argue with strangers much on the internet, but I really disagree with you on this one. What someone wears is a part of their self-expression. In this post, you use the phrases "respect for one's appearance" and "care about [one's] appearance" to suggest that people have a responsibility to follow certain norms in how they dress in order to make "'civilization' aesthetically appealing," in your words. Aes…

>What someone wears is a part of their self-expression.

It's not just part of their "self-expression". It's a reflection on the broader community as a whole.

To give a concrete example, I personally think highly of black Africans in Australia because they're always well-dressed, well-groomed, physically fit and clean.

Back when I lived in Sunshine (area formerly inhabited by white trash, being rapidly gentrified by migrants), the gaunt, green-faced, drug-addicted beggars and whores with welts all over their skin would reflect badly on me. It was a big enough deal that I just needed to go one suburb over and suddenly would be treated well.

Call people like this a bigot or shallow or whatever you want, but this is the global norm and almost everybody seems to understand it except young Westerners.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#314

Post by shrimp_emoji »

goostavos wrote: post #250
eldritch_4ier wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dress how you want in your own house. The public space isn't yours and you don't have a right to dress indecently in the public space. Turns out, some of us want to live in a society that takes itself seriously and gives a shit. Walking around in your Cookie Monster PJs just doesn't cut it. THIS mindset is what I think is the root of all the other listed problems. Somehow freedom has come to mean "I can do whatever I…

Holy crackers. When I see a person wearing PJs in public, I think -- actually, I guess I don't really think about it beyond "huh.. PJs in public." You're out there stewing on it, writing about it on the internet, and literally thinking that people wearing things you don't like is stemming from a mindset that's at the root of society's problems. This casual insight into madness is what keeps the internet exciting.

This is why I come to Hacker News.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#315

Post by 7sidedmarble »

troad wrote: post #248
Tiktaalik wrote: post #204

A lot of this is related to inequality, value of labour detaching from wealth, and the increasing unaffordability of life. The material conditions of regular people are continuously getting worse as more and more of their income is stripped away by rent seeking oligopolies, mainly increasing housing costs but depending on your jurisdiction all sorts of other costs (eg. cable and mobile phone costs an issue in some pl…

> A lot of this is related to inequality, value of labour detaching from wealth, and the increasing unaffordability of life. Inequality is declining by every measurable metric in the United States. Edit: To answer the folk naysaying with their ten second Google searches, the income inequality rate has declined between 2007 and 2019(1), helped by a strong wage recovery in the late 2010s. The share of wealth held by th…

> > A lot of this is related to inequality, value of labour detaching from wealth, and the increasing unaffordability of life.

> Inequality is declining by every measurable metric in the United States.

How would you explain any of these metrics? https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-...

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#316

Post by zeroonetwothree »

csense wrote: post #30

30-50 years ago, with a single salary you could support a house with a yard, a non-working spouse, multiple kids, and a car. Our society knew how to make that happen once, and we've forgotten. We've had incredible advances in technology and productivity since then, so why can't we have that kind of economic environment now? What's gumming up the works?

If you wanted to keep living with the same standard of living as back then you could do it as well. The average family had a 1,000 sq ft house, a single car, almost never went out to eat, never traveled on airplanes, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#317

Post by pjscott »

acallaha wrote: post #190

I agree with other commenters that rosy retrospection may be at play, and that in many regards the world today is better than ever before. That said, you might enjoy Scott Alexander's essay "Meditations on Moloch", describing how many aspects of our society are multipolar traps / races to the bottom: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ A sample: Imagine a capitalist in a cutthroat industry. H…

Also recommended is this remarkably clear explanation of the mechanisms at work here, and how things could in theory be much better:

https://equilibriabook.com/molochs-toolbox/

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#318

Post by timeon »

travisgriggs wrote: post #111
PessimalDecimal wrote: post #25

> People are noisy as fuck and dont seem to give a shit. Seems like every night there's someone with loud as exhaust on "sportish" car ripping around the neihborhood. For months this guy would start up his loud car at 7am and no one care when I complained. > Police seem to not give a shit anymore. I've noticed what seems to be total lawlessness going on in my world. Folks stealing shit. People driving absurdly danger…

Pajama pants are just decorative scrubs. Medical people go out in those all the time. You’re welcome to wear your denim scrubs as well.

Like with pajamas outside, that sounds unhygienic. But there is no way to judge anyone for this as you do not know if they are going to wear it again.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#319

Post by zeroonetwothree »

ambyra wrote: post #180
csense wrote: post #30

30-50 years ago, with a single salary you could support a house with a yard, a non-working spouse, multiple kids, and a car. Our society knew how to make that happen once, and we've forgotten. We've had incredible advances in technology and productivity since then, so why can't we have that kind of economic environment now? What's gumming up the works?

The US population in 1972 was 209b, now 333b. I remember learning about the black plague in middle school. There were many fewer people after the plague. The survivors could command much higher wages, and had more freedoms than before. Crowded environments make for pressures that are unpleasant for everyone. I think moving to a less crowded location where your individual contribution in society is more valued could b…

Life always seems better on vacation. It's not really a fair comparison. I'm sure people from Thailand vacationing in CA also feel like it's better.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#320

Post by mantas »

uneekname wrote: post #177
keiferski wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respect for other people, general social norms, polite behavior, personal dignity, and in general just a respect for one's appearance and a desire to make "civilization" aesthetically appealing. People seem to enjoy living in beautiful buildings with green parks nearby, without pollution or noise, and yet somehow think dressing like a slob or putting zero effort into one's appearance is unimportant. To be honest, if…

I try not to argue with strangers much on the internet, but I really disagree with you on this one. What someone wears is a part of their self-expression. In this post, you use the phrases "respect for one's appearance" and "care about [one's] appearance" to suggest that people have a responsibility to follow certain norms in how they dress in order to make "'civilization' aesthetically appealing," in your words. Aes…

Is pijamas in public OK or is it OK to wear what is not considered OK?

Maybe someone’s aesthetics say it’s ok to live in a neglected building close to falling apart or drive a beaten up car.

I’d say it’s much more pleasant to be in a community where aesthetics do matter. Styles do differ, but neglect is not a style by itself.

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