Live data from Hacker News

Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

blog.pragmaticengineer.com

141–150 of 405 posts

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was doing Fuchsia. SUPER cool... but what is the business case there? They are also ham strung by just not listening to customers it feels like - so I think that impacts traction. You get an 80% solution with simple glaring edges. Thousands ask - please fix this edge, but whoever is driving the product is onto something else it feels like sometime. Apple's main product lines all seem to make money, have positi…

My understanding with Fuchsia was to do better than Linux/Android in terms of security, scalability, and adaptability across devices. Why wouldn't they want to own a great OS full-stack? It's part of their bread & butter.

> Why wouldn't they want to own a great OS full-stack? It's part of their bread & butter.

It's not their bread and butter. Their bread and butter is web advertisement. 80-90% of all money they make comes from web advertisement.

Someone in the company said "we need vertical integration like Apple has and we don't like Android", and for a while they managed to run with it. Now they lost the internal power struggle. Oh well. It never had any tangible value to Google as a company anyway.

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#142
post #75

This is such a weird topic. The comparison is between companies that didn't exist 20 years ago like Meta and the 50 year old industry veteran Apple. Of course Apple didn't hire as fast, they were established. That's like saying a 20 year old college student grew more over the past decade than a 40 year old engineer. Yea, that's how life works.

What does the age of the corporations have to do with how responsibly they staff their business(es)? Also, I'd suggest that the assertion that corporations somehow all move towards responsibly managing staffing numbers warrants some supporting documentation. The article we're talking about already indicates a pretty significant example that directly contradicts what you're suggesting: Microsoft -- actually an older business than Apple, for that matter.

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#143
post #20

So these tech giants just happened to all do layoffs around the same time. What a coincidence. Almost like they are organized against their workers.

I see a lot of people quick to dismiss and down vote this comment. I understand why, people don't like unsupported supposition and conspiracy theories when they in theory pride themselves on being logical.

I'd like to point out how similar replies and derision were directed at people who suspected there was collusion to fix engineers salaries and how their was a "gentleman's agreement" to prevent hiring engineers away from each other amongst these very same companies. That happened in 2014 and it proved these same companies were all in close communication with each other in regard to staffing and salaries. They were caught and convicted and paid a small portion of the money saved by colluding as a fine.

Do I believe we have any evidence anyone is currently colluding in order to lay off enough people to cool down a rapidly heating up labor market, and suppress the demand to work remotely and be paid the same as their peers in high cost of living areas like the Bay?

No.

Do I believe they would do so if it increased profits or manipulated the cost center they hate the most (salaries and headcount) in a beneficial way, and have the means to communicate with each other unofficially to coordinate such actions, yeah, I do. They've already proven they were willing and able to do so in the past.

So while baseless accusation might be useless conspiracy fodder, cynicism is warranted when a seemingly coordinated action is being taken. Cynicism is warranted in all dealings with all of these companies. They are amoral, and exist at a level of income in which the legal system has only a tenuous hold. They have also demonstrated in the past they are willing to collude in order to hurt engineers to their benefit.

Just food for thought, and discussion. I would prefer to think about how they could be caught if that's what they were doing, and how the issue could be dealt with, rather than dismissing it out of hand. However, labor conditions for people like us has so far not descended to the point where embracing the concept of unionization is appealing, and I don't see any other way engineers could fight for job security, and wage increases commiserate with inflation or pinned to profit margins.

It's funny, there are a lot of brilliant people in this industry, but we are still being taken advantage of by the same old hucksters, and con men, I've seen it for 20 years. You would think at some point we would find a way to fight back even if it didn't involve unionizing, but it's the same pattern of the "business" guys robbing the piggy bank, or turning good places to work into dystopian nightmares for a percent more of return for that quarter. Then we just pull up stakes and move on to another company make a bit more until they do the same thing there. At some point it's all going to suck then what?

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#144
post #120

Apple is a generally more well run, mature, patient, and scrupulous company than most others.

Yup its just that they have become the largest seller of status signalling veblan goods in history, in times where inequality is at its highest. It would be nice instead, if they used their cash hoard to stop wasting time upgrading the iphone with more superficial shit. Bring prices of the phones down to 50 bucks. Put it in the hands of everyone. And kill the toxic advertising supported attention economy that has cau…

Cannibals prefer to eat others, not themselves

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#146
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who lost? Everyone who got laid off wouldn't have had at a job at all if they weren't hired, and they probably got severance packages for more than the average American makes in a year.

> Everyone who got laid off wouldn't have had at a job at all if they weren't hired Maybe I've been lucky, but every time I've been looking for a job I've had AT LEAST two options. People move cities, sell houses, buy houses, give up apartments, plan their finances, and plan their career around their job all the time. Investing a year learning the ropes at a company, finding ways to fit into the structures, etc. only…

Maybe I've been unlucky, but I've never had a job where my expectation of a severance package was anything more than 2-4 weeks wages.

The FAANGS have severance of several months pay, which to the OP’s point, is likely more than the annual median wage in the US.

These laid off workers have some of the best “job loss” conditions around.

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#147
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the company but yes. Stripe, as an example, drastically slowed down hiring when the pandemic hit expecting an economic slowdown. It then turned out that so much commerce moved to online—rather than stopped—so they ramped up hiring to meet demand. The bet that companies like Shopify and Stripe [1] made was that COVID created a “new normal”; much of the economic activity that went online would stay there. Th…

I’m not sure I believe that. It honestly sounds like an excuse to fire people. Or leadership has no clue. The biggest thing I got from the pandemic is flexible work arrangements. But I and everyone I knew all wanted to get back out there. Just not back out on public transport to work. We were doing things online because there was no other option. But once the borders opened and restrictions eased, everyone did what t…

The problem with hindsight is people often forget just how chaotic previous events like the entire pandemic was.

Even the "experts" were flip flopping globe affecting decisions, we had no idea what the right solution was and how long it would be... 3 months? 6? Permanent?

Long term decisions had to be with numerous unknowns, it is clear now they were wrong but I am not certain I would have made the right choice either.

I wouldn't go so far to say they wanted an excuse to fire, but they definitely bet the wrong odds.

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#148
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the company but yes. Stripe, as an example, drastically slowed down hiring when the pandemic hit expecting an economic slowdown. It then turned out that so much commerce moved to online—rather than stopped—so they ramped up hiring to meet demand. The bet that companies like Shopify and Stripe [1] made was that COVID created a “new normal”; much of the economic activity that went online would stay there. Th…

I’m not sure I believe that. It honestly sounds like an excuse to fire people. Or leadership has no clue. The biggest thing I got from the pandemic is flexible work arrangements. But I and everyone I knew all wanted to get back out there. Just not back out on public transport to work. We were doing things online because there was no other option. But once the borders opened and restrictions eased, everyone did what t…

Tech also depended a lot on the zero interest backed money from investors. Now that interest is up, money costs money, so the situation as changed as well.

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#149
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who lost? Everyone who got laid off wouldn't have had at a job at all if they weren't hired, and they probably got severance packages for more than the average American makes in a year.

> Everyone who got laid off wouldn't have had at a job at all if they weren't hired Maybe I've been lucky, but every time I've been looking for a job I've had AT LEAST two options. People move cities, sell houses, buy houses, give up apartments, plan their finances, and plan their career around their job all the time. Investing a year learning the ropes at a company, finding ways to fit into the structures, etc. only…

If you feel like this, you shouldn’t take a job that can’t guarantee in writing that they will keep you for X number of years. If you took a calculated risk and took the job anyway, well that’s on you.

Re: Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was doing Fuchsia. SUPER cool... but what is the business case there? They are also ham strung by just not listening to customers it feels like - so I think that impacts traction. You get an 80% solution with simple glaring edges. Thousands ask - please fix this edge, but whoever is driving the product is onto something else it feels like sometime. Apple's main product lines all seem to make money, have positi…

I would just love to be able to run my own OS on the car.. I'd write the shit out of a better interface.

I think if you asked me to write a car OS the ethical thing to do would be to quit.
Post reply on HN