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Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#561

Post by morbia »

retrac wrote: post #444
morbia wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, a very large % of gay men who are partnered romantically, are in open relationships. And by large % I mean around half. At least with American gay women, open relationships are a very minor thing, similar to the rates with heterosexuals. I would love to know the actual number here, as someone in the gay male open relationship category. I remember discussing this with a friend of mine, who is also in an o…

Sorry I did not include data I was thinking of when I posted: > When analyzing the whole sample, approximately 2% of heterosexual participants, 32% of gay participants, 5% of lesbian participants, 22% of bisexual participants, and 14% of those who described their sexualities as “other” reported being in open relationships; -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958351/ Similar ratio from studies done in 200…

> As another gay man, I used to be radically skeptical of monogamy. Like in my 20s I was spouting the line that it's a heterosexual construct falsely imposed on us for moralistic reasons. But both personal experience, and a widened social group, has led me to believe that, for a significant number of gay men a monogamous relationship is ideal. They're happiest in them, and seem to be able to make them work. Perhaps with some compromises and perhaps not entirely happy, but for what it's worth, I'm not sure I've met any couple that was perfectly happy.

Funnily enough I am precisely the opposite. I spent my 20s trying to hunt for "the one" and had a series of short, failed relationships. Now I'm in my 30s I am in a 9 year long successful (I think?) open/polyamorous relationship.

Really I think gay men (and men in general) struggle with communication skills and emotional maturity. Gaining those skills are key to maintaining long, healthy relationships. Non-monogamy is an avenue towards working towards achieving those skills because maintaining a healthy, open relationship means a lot of communication is required. In my opinion, it is a high risk, high reward strategy to a maintaining a relationship.

> but for what it's worth, I'm not sure I've met any couple that was perfectly happy.

I think we have to distinguish minor annoyances from major communication issues due to sex. Like it or not, sex is a big part of being human and sex drive is something can be wildly different between people. Non-monogamy can be an outlet for this.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#562

Post by thwayunion »

benj111 wrote: post #526
haunter wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to the list the once more common community places, like church which pretty much disappearing from modern life (at least in the US and Europe). I'm not religious but more and more I think that church as a community place back then had a postive effect on local communites.

So church is a place you can go to hook up and have sex? They seem to be underselling that feature.

Marriage first, at least ostensibly, but yes. Many churches have special small groups/social events for people in prime dating age ranges and those groups are often meat market-y.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#563

Post by wonderwonder »

bmn__ wrote: post #533
wonderwonder wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? Is it an ethnicity issue?

"just be white", bro

you present this as some sort of negative? What is wrong with people being attracted to certain races? People cannot control who they find attractive and there is no racist component to it. People should be allowed to engage in relationships with whoever they want using whatever criteria they want.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#564

Post by avmich »

hutzlibu wrote: post #525
nkingsy wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a past life I got pretty deep into trying to help guys like this. There's a whole industry around it peddling advice that ranges from effective (yet impossible to implement for a broken person) to counter-productive and evil. It's really very simple, but people just have massive amounts of negative programming that radiates out from them like a reverse pheromone. Those who are hungry do not eat. You can't fake it,…

"while making no effort to hide one's sexual interest" This is tricky, but key. If you hide your interest, you will most likely act weird. And yes, rejection is part of the game and no problem. Unless of course - like you say - one is already broken. Then a simple rejection can be devastating of the remaining confidence. Flirting is a game, but some never learned how to play. I also learned it quite late and remember…

> Flirting is a game, but some never learned how to play

That would mean it's not very natural, which could be doubtful. However the quality of play could vary, with corresponding outcomes.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#565

Post by yamtaddle »

hammock wrote: post #378
giantg2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference with online dating is that people tend to objective and quantify the other person more easily. In person, there tends to be fewer traits known before getting to know the person. Online, you have a dossier that causes more candidates to be rejected without a chance to get to know then. In some ways this is great because you don't waste your time, or their's, if there's a serious incompatibility. But I t…

I'm not sure that's true. The traits "known" are more subversive. Did you meet at a country/city club? At a gym? An upscale restaurant or bar? Do you have an accent? What are you wearing? What are you drinking? What do your friends look like? How do you carry a conversation? What unconscious body language and facial cues do you communicate? I'm willing to bet that I could reliably predict 80%+ of whatever profile att…

> I'm willing to bet that I could reliably predict 80%+ of whatever profile attributes you fill out online, with a 2 minute conversation and good look at you.

Hahaha—I have a pretty good track record at the game, "spot the software industry dude" on hiking trails. We have a certain look and demeanor. Our preference for conspicuously-expensive outdoor gear from the right brands (not "hick" or "red" brands) does make it relatively easy as such games go, though.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#566

Post by awaythrow483 »

lechacker wrote: post #517

As a 30+ year old kissless virgin I have recently began noticing that the loneliness part has began affecting me more deeply than usual. I suppose noticing the first signs of aging in my face led to the realization of all things not-done. I've had a couple of episodes of despair in the past few months because of this. Unfortunately people like me become helpless. You'll be alone because you _are_ alone: you don't hav…

This is obviously very dependent on life situation but consider taking a year off and traveling somewhere where you'll have better luck dating and just focusing on yourself.

Thailand and Colombia are the two obvious choices to me. Quit work, and just get a $500 a month apartment and focus on working out every day and enjoying life. You WILL find people interested in dating you if you have reasonable expectations.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#567

Post by thw09j9m »

benj111 wrote: post #552
thw09j9m wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because they're not letting me bang them out of politeness.

So is this statistic based on people you've shagged? This appears to be a self selecting group at best. Did you find more people to have sex with in one group, and concluding you are more attractive to that group? Are you getting more matches from one group? Is the percentage of matches that leads to sex in one group higher? Non of those necessarily mean you were more attractive to one group. I mean you could be extr…

Sorry, you're right. I made up those numbers based on data suggesting a pareto distribution of matches. I also didn't intend to imply that I'm somehow in the top 10% of objective attractiveness - I meant attractiveness within the context of the app based on my match performance.

https://d3.harvard.edu/platform-digit/submission/exploitive-....

> Users are assigned an attractiveness score based on how many people like them. The dating apps tends towards a pareto distribution where 20% of the users get 80% of the matches as seen in Figure 5. However, users are sorted based on their attractiveness score, and thus you’re shown users who are roughly in the same league as you. Furthermore, the average male user gets one match in 115 profiles [9]. With only 100 free swipes a day, 80% males who haven’t paid for premium service will average less than a single match a day.

Considering those figures, maybe I'm in the top 20% of the country where I do well (seems unlikely if the 80th percentile is getting less than a single match a day while I'm getting dozens) and I could be anywhere in the bottom 1%-80% in the country where I'm not doing well.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#568

Post by shagie »

PaulHoule wrote: post #423
ajross wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The imbalance is huge This is overstating the case. This can all be measured. Statistics like median number of partners, age at marriage, etc... are indeed all trending downward and growing more asymmetric between men and women. The linked article cites a few studies like this. But it's not a "huge" effect. This is a meme, created largely by feedback communities like the incel folks. Note, FWIW, the Betteridge ques…

It doesn’t have to be a numerically huge effect to be a socially huge effect. In the simple model where people pair up 1-1 exactly once, a 2% imbalance means 2% of people can’t pair up no matter what they do. I wonder how this plays out in places like India and China that practice sex selective abortion.

The term you are looking for is "bare branches"

https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/bare-branches-secur...

> What happens to a society that has too many men? In this provocative book, Valerie Hudson and Andrea den Boer argue that, historically, high male-to-female ratios often trigger domestic and international violence. Most violent crime is committed by young unmarried males who lack stable social bonds. Although there is not always a direct cause-and-effect relationship, these surplus men often play a crucial role in making violence prevalent within society. Governments sometimes respond to this problem by enlisting young surplus males in military campaigns and high-risk public works projects. Countries with high male-to-female ratios also tend to develop authoritarian political systems.

https://theconversation.com/pity-chinas-bare-branches-unmarr...

> Chinese New Year, or the Spring Festival, is a highlight in Chinese society. But for many young people, the joy of vacation and family reunion is mixed with questions from parents and relatives about their achievements in the past year, including about their relationships.

> This is a particularly stressful occasion for single men who – unless they choose to rent a fake partner or have a stroke of luck at the local marriage “market” - are forced to face the miserable fate of singlehood.

> These involuntary bachelors, who fail to add fruit to their family tree are often referred to as “bare branches”, or guanggun. And the Chinese state has recently started to worry about the dire demographic trend posed by the growing number of bare branches.

> The 2010 national census data suggests that 24.7% Chinese men above the age of 15 have never been married, while 18.5% of women in the same age group remain unwed.

'Bare Branches' and Danger in Asia - https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2004/07/04/b...

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#569

Post by Qem »

EricDeb wrote: post #479
spaniard89277 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

I dont think most people realize how big a deal location is. Move to a big city in the north east (NYC is the best) and you will have better luck than the west coast or midwest. The numbers favor men in those locations.

In what sense? Is the gender ratio skewed there?

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#570

Post by ketzo »

lechacker wrote: post #524
konart wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not much. Maybe a house of worship Literature clubs, language classes. Literally any hobbie that does not require you to stay focused on device that may cut off your fingers if you look away.

Trying to "flirt" in those spheres is looked down upon just as ferociously as doing it at the office. Have you not seen the viral TikTok of the woman that was "angry" that some guy was "checking her out" at the gym, while the man was barely paying attention at her at all?

Treating hobby scenes as pure dating opportunities is definitely looked down on. If you show up to Introductory Spanish and start dropping pick-up lines on strangers, yeah, people are gonna show you the door.

But hobbies are an opportunity for repeated exposure to strangers. Lots and lots and lots of people start casual friendships that can turn into romantic ones.

Using a hobby as a meat market: deeply uncool, and people will notice very quickly.

Using a hobby as a way to meet people, and having one of those relationships turn romantic: totally natural!

It’s a very fine line, yeah, but trust me, it is extremely obvious which one people are doing.

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