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Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#171

Post by goodpoint »

cuuupid wrote: post #71
guerrilla wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we skip the dystopia and do some free-software peer-to-peer or federated solution somehow? Are ActivityPub-like protocols useful for this?

Possibly, as disgusting as it sounds this is a pretty good use case for web3. Federate identity via blockchain to prevent bad actors, require a $1 or so NFT to use the app to prevent scammers from mass-botting, and some regular security and privacy measures = you’re good to go Expanding user graphs for matches across multiple nodes isn’t just easy, it’s actually way more efficient too. Have nodes calculate match like…

Please tell me you are joking. The cryptolibertarian crowd is not usually seen as the most trustworthy especially when in comes to topics like dating. To put it very mildly.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#172

Post by klyrs »

zb3 wrote: post #75
pcthrowaway wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Encourage men to have sex with men Not the worst idea, but moreso because men should be comfortable and encouraged to have sex with whatever gender they want. Right now there is a lack of unanimous support for men who have sex with men.

However I'd need to change my orientation first, I think many people would be happy to do so. This should be possible, but isn't yet.

There's the real rub. The principle issue with this sexual loneliness is an unavailability of consensual partnerships. The men who are not getting sex are not desirable to the women they desire, and they're also not desirable to each other.

Looking back to Greek and Roman times, it really seems that this is not "natural" as much as it is cultural. Culture changes itself, to its own whims. I do not think it can be changed by policy short of genocide (also bad).

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#173

Post by haunter »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #116

The classic formula for hooking up is time and proximity - throw people together in the same space and wait - people will start hooking up. No app can provide this - they are designed with the exact opposite scenario in mind. This is why people meet in high school (4 years)/college(4 years)/at the office (40 years). With the move to remote work in many places we've cut off the office part - where people had the most…

And to the list the once more common community places, like church which pretty much disappearing from modern life (at least in the US and Europe). I'm not religious but more and more I think that church as a community place back then had a postive effect on local communites.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#174

Post by afavour »

yibg wrote: post #49
cuuupid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair this is not entirely due to social dynamics but rather due to MatchGroup companies following identical monetization patterns. They’re just capitalizing on male desperation and artificially widening or narrowing the gap depending on how much you pay. If you observe the actual dating climate it’s nowhere near this bad and in larger cities like NYC it can even be closer to 1:1. Rather than a social problem th…

I don't know if that's true. From most data I've seen women's preferences skew towards a small percentage of men. i.e. most women want the same guys, which are the small minority. This leaves (making up numbers) 80% of women wanting 20% of men. Where as men tend to be less discriminating in their choices of women.

Surely that would mean 60% of women (assuming equal gender balance in the population) are perpetually single? That doesn’t sound right to me.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#175

Post by efa »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #38
itsmemattchung wrote: post #4

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

Aren't bars similar to dating sites? A forum for men to compete with other men for women. I would think they'd have better luck with group activities (rec sports, craft/hobby stuff) or online groups devoted to something (restaurant enthusiasts, etc).

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#176

Post by GrigoriyMikh »

giantg2 wrote: post #135
spaniard89277 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

"I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-looking, that have not been touched by a woman in years." I have a friends like this. One solution a couple of them have found is dating internationally. Not via "mail-order" services though. It was sort of a situation where they had a domestic friend who had friends or relatives abroad who were looking for a US marriage. So there was some trust there, a…

The international dating absolutely ruins dating for local guys. Look into Eastern Europe or even better, Thailand.

Also, is it really long term solution to loneliness? If only motivation for marriage was to get the attractive citezenship, what will hold the marriage after it's done? Anecdotally, internet is full of stories of "mail-brides", who divorce the men and take a sweet part of his assets with it.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#177

Post by PaulHoule »

andrewclunn wrote: post #123
PaulHoule wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I guess you could say that nobody deserves to live in an safe environment free of violence, black people don't serve to not get beaten up by the cops, poor people don't deserve health care, nobody is owed a job in a non-toxic environment that doesn't kill them because of stress, etc. So often when people have problems that are hard to solve the answer is just "talk to the hand" at best.

Even if one believes in forced labor in order to provide goods and services to those in need, are you really drawing some sort of parallel where people should be compelled to perform sexual favors for others? I mean one could be a full on communist and not think that state provided prostitution (where people would be assigned those jobs by the state) is ethical. Didn't think I'd see apologism for something akin to No…

I didn't say anything like that.

What I would like to do is disallow use of the concept of "entitlement" particularly "you are not entitled to..." in conversation.

There are many other arguments people could make, they don't need that one.

There is a theme in psychology going back to the Freudian days that female desire has a self-destructive aspect (e.g. "masochism"), we all know the woman who dates one bad boyfriend and then finds another bad boyfriend and another bad boyfriend. It's a subject that has been suppressed in serious discussion though because it is perceived to be antifeminist. I think it's going to come back.

Roughly it seems that many men are unhappy with their relationship prospects at age 20 but by age 40 many women have been going out with the men that they desire and found that none of them want to commit to the long-term relationship because... they all want the same few guys!

It could be if women had a more realistic understanding of their life course and prospects they'd realize what a dead end it is to be dating the guys they want and learn to want some guy that is not so exciting but that has the potential to be loyal... A solution looks something like that, not having state-endorsed prostitution or anything.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#178

Post by MPSimmons »

afavour wrote: post #133
f-securus wrote: post #5

Legalize prostitution and regulate safety and perhaps incels would build confidence and learn to socialize a bit from paid sexual interactions? I'm kind of ignorant to the subject of what is the cause of 'sexual loneliness' but I believe the world's oldest profession shouldn't be pushed into the shadows as that causes more problems than it prevents.

I think that would work on the immediate effects (i.e. "sexual loneliness") but build confidence and learn to socialize? I doubt that. Sex is the endgame. Before that you've got a whole world of social interaction and skill and skipping to the end wouldn't help you with any of that. Maybe if the prostitutes were more like escorts, you go out on a date, they give you honest feedback about how you're presenting yoursel…

>Sex is the endgame

Maslow would suggest otherwise.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#179

Post by giantg2 »

hammock wrote: post #55
cuuupid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair this is not entirely due to social dynamics but rather due to MatchGroup companies following identical monetization patterns. They’re just capitalizing on male desperation and artificially widening or narrowing the gap depending on how much you pay. If you observe the actual dating climate it’s nowhere near this bad and in larger cities like NYC it can even be closer to 1:1. Rather than a social problem th…

Singling out dating apps, or worse a single company thinking their monopoly created the problem, is missing the forest for the trees. The social dynamic exists independent of dating apps which monetize and exploit it. The dynamic is the same in real life, for example at a nightclub where women drink for free, promoters who bring them get paid per girl, and lonely men pay $40 cover for a chance to shoot their shot

One difference with online dating is that people tend to objective and quantify the other person more easily. In person, there tends to be fewer traits known before getting to know the person. Online, you have a dossier that causes more candidates to be rejected without a chance to get to know then.

In some ways this is great because you don't waste your time, or their's, if there's a serious incompatibility. But I think it can also be used negatively when people are too picky. Sure, there are people who are too picky in real life, but those snap judgements are based just on what you can see. The absence of other information can make someone go, "Ok, I'll give them a shot even if they're average looking because maybe they're interesting/mysterious/etc".

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#180

Post by ckozlowski »

frognumber wrote: post #24

I am happy about the study, since I think this is underresearched. However, I think Gini Index this is a horrible way to look at it. Regular sex is important, but regularly switching sex partners isn't really how I want to live my life. I don't want 50 lifetime partners, 38, 15, or even 12. I wanted one. That I have more than one is a sign of failure of a relationship each time, which is not a success. If I had my ch…

I'm not going to downvote this. (I'm paying partictular attention to the "how I want to live my life" part) But there's a number of presumptions made that I think are worth calling out that should not be assumed:

- That the ending of a relationship is necessarily a failure.

- That two very young people are in a place to understand the implications of choosing a life partner.

- That extended families are necessary to "keep things from going south". (What does that mean? Helping mediate conflict, or to bury persistent issues in the name of stability?)

There's others here, but I'll stick with the three. But overall, while it may be good for some ("you do you"), I find a lot here to raise an eyebrow at and much too discomforting to simply scroll past. So much of this seems to reinforce unhealthy and oppressive norms that, in my strong opinion, lead eventually to so many destructing relationships in the long run.

For additional reading, I'd greatly recommend "The Way We Never Were" by Stephanie Coontz as to why this mid-century style relationship was highly unusual in the historical context. https://www.amazon.com/Way-We-Never-Were-Nostalgia/dp/046509...

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