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Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

nytimes.com

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Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#101

Post by vuln »

invitrom wrote: post #55
Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

It seems highly unlikely that millions of people get a depression right after an infection with covid.

I guess if I had to watch family members and friends die via a video chat, or not being able to visit or hold their handle in their last moments? Or you know attend a funeral.

Nope can't see that leading to depression. Everything is fine.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#102

Post by neon_electro »

fasthands9 wrote: post #50
yboris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like if our society had UBI (Universal Basic Income) we wouldn't have to worry so much over cases like this - people would be able to get by, it wouldn't be a crisis for so many individuals.

I'm pretty open to UBI but dont really see how that would be the case here. Let's say someone (who also has an illness like diabetes) has two children and isnt able to work for five years because of long covid. Will the UBI payments be high enough to support them and their children? Or would higher payments be needed to support for them? Would they get a different UBI as a single dude in his 40s? If so that's fine -…

UBI plus Medicare for All (not just Medicare for elders) is the way.

"Welfare" beyond that can and should be discussed and considered - I'm not advocating for taking away any of the welfare state as a trade for implementing UBI, personally.

Everyone receives it, everyone pays taxes accordingly, those with enough tax liability end up netting $0 or less in UBI for the period.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#103

Post by khazhoux »

DennisP wrote: post #92
khazhoux wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it also seems highly unlikely that a respiratory disease that primarily attacks lungs, results in long-term depression. Whataever physiological connection exists there, is far from obvious. And I haven’t found concrete studies to explain it.

Covid is not just a respiratory disease. It can affect "the heart, kidneys, skin and brain. Inflammation and problems with the immune system can also happen," according to Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i... They're mainly talking about severe cases, but it doesn't seem that unlikely that it could also have more mild effects to those organs.

This article is about Long Covid, so in a sense this is circular evidence.

Nonetheless, the two qualifiers in the statement "People who had severe illness with COVID-19 might experience organ damage affecting the heart, kidneys, skin and brain" weakens the argument. If the long-covid issue was just that people who were in ICU then had long-term symptoms, that's an easy premise to understand. But IMHO, for mild symptoms, there's a non-obvious leap to say that long-term brain damage somehow occurred.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#104

Post by joshjje »

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #67
runemadsen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just so, so wrong in many ways. Read about post-viral diseases such as Me/CFS that closely mirrors what Long Covid sufferers are going through. Watch "Unrest" on Netflix. Stop telling people who have serious physical symptoms that it's all mental. Just stop.

Are there any physiological or biological signatures for Long Covid? Is there any objective way to diagnose? The symptoms of Long Covid are so vague and our recent work so wacky, you could use the same criteria used to diagnose Long Covid to diagnose "Long Lockdowns Syndrome" with all the same vague symptoms.

Fibromyalgia is a similar issue and I'm sure there are hundreds of others, our understanding of the human body still has a long way to go.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#105

Post by webnrrd2k »

chitowneats wrote: post #56
BryantD wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally think that mental illness is on par with physical illness, to the degree that you can differentiate them. If it’s worth our time to worry about one, it’s worth our time to worry about the other.

We need to correctly diagnose the issue to "worry" constructively about it. Many in the Long COVID community start from the assumption that their symptoms are caused by a totally novel post-viral syndrome, and are very against exploring the idea that this could be a mental health issue.

I can't tell if you're claiming that people claim that 1.) post-viral covid is totally novel, of if 2.) Post-viral syndrome is totally novel.

However, it reads to me like you're saying that there is no way post-viral syndrome could be a real cause. If they see a competent doctor, I'm pretty dure that they'll investigate depression as a cause, and make an attempt to verify or rule it out.

Post-viral syndrome has been recognized since at least the mid-80's, roughly [1]. As far as it goes, if someone gets covid and has horrible symptoms of depression afterwards, then it's certainly plausible that it's caused by post-viral syndrome.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1710789/

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#106

Post by francisofascii »

raptor556 wrote: post #8

I've recently realized that I've been unusually tired, daily, and lack the usually high ambition and drive I had prior to January 2020, which is when I caught COVID. I never got the vaccine and I'm curious if my symptoms are related to COVID, or related to being a few years older, or changes to exercise schedules, or a general change in life outlook after the past few years, or even mild depression or something. It m…

I had had immune system issues since January 2020, where it take forever to feel better. So before the vaccines, which I did get. I am suffering now, as I write this. It comes and goes. I will go months when I am fine but then get sick and take weeks to get better. No mental issues. Not obese, run everyday, etc. If I overdo it with a long run then sometimes it will trigger it. Once its triggered, it takes a week or two feel normal. I can work and get through the day, but not much energy for much else. Feel sick in the morning. Extremely frustrating.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#107

Post by factsarelolz »

dEnigma wrote: post #89
throwntoday wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how anyone can deny the risks inherent to getting a shot. However insignificantly low you can demonstrate the possibility of side-effects from the vaccine are, the risks associated with actually getting covid were just as low. Given the vaccine isn't even preventing covid now, you're only compounding your risk by getting it. This is undeniable no matter what you think about vaccines, mandates, etc.

I think the risks of lying in a hospital, strapped to a ventilator were a lot higher with Covid than with getting the shot. To be honest I would recommend the shot even if just to prevent potential month-long loss of smell, as I experienced it (I think that symptom is less prevalent with recent variants though, but I could be mistaken)

> I think the risks of lying in a hospital, strapped to a ventilator

Being managed by medical professionals with no experience or training on said ventilator or enough personnel to accurate monitor the ventilators or even put the right people who actually need a ventilator and not just everyone that walked in the door.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#108

Post by ibejoeb »

neon_electro wrote: post #100
ibejoeb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the control for this, though? We're talking about a conjecture that there is a non-specific, undetectable condition affecting millions of people to the point that they are unable to work. Who pays for UBI if anyone can claim it?

Everyone receives UBI. Those earning additional income beyond a threshold will pay taxes such that their "net UBI" for the tax year or other tax period will be 0 or less. But the standard UBI payments come in no matter what. Can you better phrase how you're looking at this like an experiment with control and test components?

That was just a poor sentence. By "claim it" I'm referring to opting not to work and citing long covid.

I'm asking if after having given everyone an escape hatch, what is going to fund UBI?

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#109

Post by doubled112 »

dEnigma wrote: post #89
throwntoday wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how anyone can deny the risks inherent to getting a shot. However insignificantly low you can demonstrate the possibility of side-effects from the vaccine are, the risks associated with actually getting covid were just as low. Given the vaccine isn't even preventing covid now, you're only compounding your risk by getting it. This is undeniable no matter what you think about vaccines, mandates, etc.

I think the risks of lying in a hospital, strapped to a ventilator were a lot higher with Covid than with getting the shot. To be honest I would recommend the shot even if just to prevent potential month-long loss of smell, as I experienced it (I think that symptom is less prevalent with recent variants though, but I could be mistaken)

Even with the shots I had 2 weeks where I could not smell.

Definitely one of the strangest things I've had happen to me.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#110

Post by dragonwriter »

neon_electro wrote: post #102
fasthands9 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty open to UBI but dont really see how that would be the case here. Let's say someone (who also has an illness like diabetes) has two children and isnt able to work for five years because of long covid. Will the UBI payments be high enough to support them and their children? Or would higher payments be needed to support for them? Would they get a different UBI as a single dude in his 40s? If so that's fine -…

UBI plus Medicare for All (not just Medicare for elders) is the way. "Welfare" beyond that can and should be discussed and considered - I'm not advocating for taking away any of the welfare state as a trade for implementing UBI, personally. Everyone receives it, everyone pays taxes accordingly, those with enough tax liability end up netting $0 or less in UBI for the period.

> UBI plus Medicare for All (not just Medicare for elders) is the way.

Note that, given the actual structure of Medicare (partially publicly subsized private insurance with a public default and minimum-benefit option which still has premiums, part of which is waived for Social Security and Railroad Retirement beneficiaries), the ACA is almost Medicare for all, and with a default public option (even with premiums for most people) the “almost” would go away.

(“Medicare for all” is sometimes used as a code for universal, premium-free, public-only insurance, but that’s not at all similar to Medicare.)

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