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Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

nytimes.com

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Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#51

Post by minsight »

minsight wrote: post #22
Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

Long Covid has a collection of effects on the body which can be observed using commonly-ordered tests. A dramatically reduced serum cortisol is one.

That's not all. We also have "T cell alterations, including exhausted T cells, reduced CD4+ and CD8+ effector memory cell numbers and elevated PD1 expression on central memory cells" which might help narrow it down for the non-believers. I didn't want to post a laundry list, but can post more if necessary.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#52

Post by nerdponx »

Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

That, or, it gives credence to theories that depression can have a physiological component or origin in at least some cases.

It also blurs the line between physical and mental illness. Where do neurological disorders end and mental illnesses begin?

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#53

Post by nradov »

yboris wrote: post #14
digdugdirk wrote: post #9

This will be extremely interesting to see play out. Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't a "testable" marker to determine/backup if people are still experiencing Covid symptoms. Insurance companies aren't going to want to play nice for both treatment and disability payouts, but the number of people with the condition is likely too large to sweep under the rug as might normally occur. I have no idea how things will go, bu…

It seems like if our society had UBI (Universal Basic Income) we wouldn't have to worry so much over cases like this - people would be able to get by, it wouldn't be a crisis for so many individuals.

We have Social Security disability payments available to those who are legitimately unable to work (I do recognize that it can be difficult for some people to navigate the application process). But I am absolutely unwilling to pay higher taxes into a UBI scheme to support people who are capable of working but choose not to.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#54

Post by fzeroracer »

Zanneth wrote: post #49
fzeroracer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it 'exactly the same' is doing a lot of heavy lifting. I've struggled on and off with depression and the symptoms people report for long covid are not at all like those I or others with depression I've talked to. General fatigue/exhaustion for example doesn't mean I quickly run out of breath when doing normal activities or struggle to do tasks I normally took for granted.

Perhaps you and I have had different experiences with depression. For me, basic physical activity is completely exhausting when I am going through a depressive episode.

Then your statement is incorrect. You said 'anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like'. I am anyone and I disagree.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#55

Post by invitrom »

Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

It seems highly unlikely that millions of people get a depression right after an infection with covid.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#56

Post by chitowneats »

BryantD wrote: post #44
Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

I generally think that mental illness is on par with physical illness, to the degree that you can differentiate them. If it’s worth our time to worry about one, it’s worth our time to worry about the other.

We need to correctly diagnose the issue to "worry" constructively about it. Many in the Long COVID community start from the assumption that their symptoms are caused by a totally novel post-viral syndrome, and are very against exploring the idea that this could be a mental health issue.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#57

Post by [deleted] »

Zanneth wrote: post #41
snozolli wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. I've had depression and I've had depressed friends. None of us ever had those symptoms.

Were you clinically diagnosed? It is quite common for people suffering from depression to not even be able to get out of bed in the morning.

[deleted]

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#58

Post by tcoff91 »

raptor556 wrote: post #8

I've recently realized that I've been unusually tired, daily, and lack the usually high ambition and drive I had prior to January 2020, which is when I caught COVID. I never got the vaccine and I'm curious if my symptoms are related to COVID, or related to being a few years older, or changes to exercise schedules, or a general change in life outlook after the past few years, or even mild depression or something. It m…

You should get the vaccine regardless to enhance your immunity in case of a potential re-infection. If it helps you feel better that's just a bonus.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#59

Post by andsoitis »

clint wrote: post #45
snozolli wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. I've had depression and I've had depressed friends. None of us ever had those symptoms.

I too have had depression and I have also had depressed friends. All of us have had those symptoms.

Including actual weakness of muscles?

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#60

Post by wk_end »

ibejoeb wrote: post #30
yboris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like if our society had UBI (Universal Basic Income) we wouldn't have to worry so much over cases like this - people would be able to get by, it wouldn't be a crisis for so many individuals.

What's the control for this, though? We're talking about a conjecture that there is a non-specific, undetectable condition affecting millions of people to the point that they are unable to work. Who pays for UBI if anyone can claim it?

The basic idea of UBI is that everyone claims it. That's why it's universal!
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