Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#81

Post by DennisP » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

invitrom wrote: post #55

Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

It seems highly unlikely that millions of people get a depression right after an infection with covid.

And even if they did, that doesn't mean covid didn't physically cause it. HIV for example can cause depression by physically damaging the brain.

https://www.health.com/condition/depression/conditions-linke...

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#82

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #67

runemadsen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just so, so wrong in many ways. Read about post-viral diseases such as Me/CFS that closely mirrors what Long Covid sufferers are going through. Watch "Unrest" on Netflix. Stop telling people who have serious physical symptoms that it's all mental. Just stop.

Are there any physiological or biological signatures for Long Covid? Is there any objective way to diagnose? The symptoms of Long Covid are so vague and our recent work so wacky, you could use the same criteria used to diagnose Long Covid to diagnose "Long Lockdowns Syndrome" with all the same vague symptoms.

[deleted]

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#83

Post by aeschinder » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #35

yboris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like if our society had UBI (Universal Basic Income) we wouldn't have to worry so much over cases like this - people would be able to get by, it wouldn't be a crisis for so many individuals.

Our Covid response really hurt the case for UBI. It turns out, when people are paid to stay at home and not work, even for a short period of time, we get high inflation and product shortages.

Just so I understand...two stimmy checks are to blame for inflation and product shortages? I know this is a popular talking point, but there needs to be some facts to back this up. Supply chains were wrecked by shipping container shortages due to bottlenecking at ports as well as factory shutdowns. There are proven instances where businesses increased prices just because they could.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#84

Post by peterbell_nyc » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

throwntoday wrote: post #43

Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

I don't see how anyone can deny the risks inherent to getting a shot. However insignificantly low you can demonstrate the possibility of side-effects from the vaccine are, the risks associated with actually getting covid were just as low. Given the vaccine isn't even preventing covid now, you're only compounding your risk by getting it. This is undeniable no matter what you think about vaccines, mandates, etc.

Can't believe we're still having this debate. There are indeed risks to the vaccine. There are also risks to covid (both immediate and longer term). My understanding based on the research is that for the vast majority of the population the sum of the risks of vaccine plus (usually) a milder case of covid are materially lower than the risks of getting covid if you're unvaccinated.

A vaccine doesn't have to stop you getting something to reduce your risk of serious illness, death and possibly long covid.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#85

Post by eldritch_4ier » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

raptor556 wrote: post #8

I've recently realized that I've been unusually tired, daily, and lack the usually high ambition and drive I had prior to January 2020, which is when I caught COVID. I never got the vaccine and I'm curious if my symptoms are related to COVID, or related to being a few years older, or changes to exercise schedules, or a general change in life outlook after the past few years, or even mild depression or something. It m…

Completely feel the same way, except I attribute it to losing my job offer due to lockdowns (pulling the financial rug out from under me for months), being isolated from friends and family members for years, losing all access to outlets other than TV and video games or whatever else I could do inside, and the constant stream of news about how the world was on fire and we're all hopeless to stop it.

It doesn't take a novel virus to see how many people would feel pretty aimless and disillusioned after that.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#86

Post by runemadsen » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #67

runemadsen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just so, so wrong in many ways. Read about post-viral diseases such as Me/CFS that closely mirrors what Long Covid sufferers are going through. Watch "Unrest" on Netflix. Stop telling people who have serious physical symptoms that it's all mental. Just stop.

Are there any physiological or biological signatures for Long Covid? Is there any objective way to diagnose? The symptoms of Long Covid are so vague and our recent work so wacky, you could use the same criteria used to diagnose Long Covid to diagnose "Long Lockdowns Syndrome" with all the same vague symptoms.

There is lots and lots of research into the similarities of Long Covid and other post-viral illnesses despite the fact that people only recently started reporting these symptoms:

"This study supports prior findings that ME/CFS occurs with high prevalence among those who have persistent COVID-19 symptoms." - https://www.mdpi.com/2035-8377/15/1/1

Long Covid symptoms are not vague. If you argue this, you have not done enough research into what people are battling. A majority of Long Covid haulers suffer from PEM (Post Exertional Malaise) which is a primary symptom of ME/CFS, and even thought research on this subject has been performed for decades, We currently don't understand what causes it. There are many theories for ME/CFS which could fit well with Long Covid, including an activation of the Epstein-Barr virus which causes neuroinflammation, and if this neuroinflammation primarily centers on the brain, it explains all the symptoms that people are reporting.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#87

Post by peterbell_nyc » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #32

Covid is a problem for working-age people when there is a comorbidity - usually obesity. It'd be interesting to see additional data about these worker comp claims about other health issues as we've known that America has an obesity problem for some time.

My understanding is that while the risk of serious illness and death are strongly correlated with age and comorbidities that we're starting to see a meaningful number of cases of long covid in the working age population and it's not clear to me that it is limited to those who are obese.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#88

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #59

clint wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too have had depression and I have also had depressed friends. All of us have had those symptoms.

Including actual weakness of muscles?

How do you reliably measure actual weakness of muscles? There is a huge neurological and psychological component to strength. My level of motivation and willingness to suffer has a huge impact on the amount of force that I can exert in a strength test. If I think I'm sick then that reduces my confidence and my ability to perform to my maximum potential even if there's nothing physically wrong.

That said, I do think there is probably some mitochondrial dysfunction going on in a subset of Long Covid patients that reduces muscle strength. But we don't have a good way to measure it and don't even know what to look for.

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#89

Post by dEnigma » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

throwntoday wrote: post #43

Zanneth wrote: post #18

A lot of the symptoms of “Long COVID” are exactly the same as depression and anxiety symptoms. Brain fog, fatigue, muscle weakness: anyone who has ever had depression knows what this is like. Of course there are a small number of people who had severe illness from COVID and had to be hospitalized, and the road to recovery for them is quite long, but most people claiming that they suffer from Long COVID are not the on…

I don't see how anyone can deny the risks inherent to getting a shot. However insignificantly low you can demonstrate the possibility of side-effects from the vaccine are, the risks associated with actually getting covid were just as low. Given the vaccine isn't even preventing covid now, you're only compounding your risk by getting it. This is undeniable no matter what you think about vaccines, mandates, etc.

I think the risks of lying in a hospital, strapped to a ventilator were a lot higher with Covid than with getting the shot. To be honest I would recommend the shot even if just to prevent potential month-long loss of smell, as I experienced it (I think that symptom is less prevalent with recent variants though, but I could be mistaken)

Re: Long Covid is keeping significant numbers of people out of work, study finds

#90

Post by minsight » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #67

runemadsen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just so, so wrong in many ways. Read about post-viral diseases such as Me/CFS that closely mirrors what Long Covid sufferers are going through. Watch "Unrest" on Netflix. Stop telling people who have serious physical symptoms that it's all mental. Just stop.

Are there any physiological or biological signatures for Long Covid? Is there any objective way to diagnose? The symptoms of Long Covid are so vague and our recent work so wacky, you could use the same criteria used to diagnose Long Covid to diagnose "Long Lockdowns Syndrome" with all the same vague symptoms.

There are: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2