Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Disappearance of the Ashtray

clivethompson.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

611–620 of 668 posts

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#611

Post by sidewndr46 »

bruce511 wrote: post #605
sidewndr46 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read about Pan Am in the 1920s and 1930s & you will think differently. They were busy building global transportation routes with whatever technology they could get their hands on.

Yes, commercial flight goes back before the 60s. And sure there were the flying boats and so on. But that era of commercial flight was very limited, it was expensive, there were very limited schedules and so on. Today I can get a flight to pretty much anywhere in the world, with maybe a day's lead time, and perhaps 36 hours of travel. Anywhere. In the world. So, I think we can say air travel is no longer in "startup"…

You're confusing "air travel" with "jet travel". Jet travel was obviously a startup in the 60s.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#612

Post by Karrot_Kream »

BizarroLand wrote: post #600
gooooooore wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wtf did I just read

You just read some extremely refined copium in text form. This person has some major cognitive dissonance about the health and safety of smoking cigarettes and is dissociating from the dissonance with poetic drivel. Tobacco is unhealthy to consume. It's okay in small, occasional doses, your body can probably shrug off a few draws from a ceremonial peace pipe like it was nothing. But smoking every day or multiple time…

Don't be silly. Is your home's air filtered correctly? Did you scratch your face after touching a public doorknob? I hope you're not using "poetic drivel" to justify use of a gas stove when we know it leads to combustion byproducts in the air. You better be eating healthy all the time too, or else only copium is justifying your food choices.

Nobody is saying that cigarettes or nicotine is healthy. The warnings exist and are highly popular. Smoking bans in public places in the many US states are generally very popular in those states. The "poetic" poster talked about how cigarettes are bad multiple times. But as adults with full knowledge of the risks of something, these adults can still engage in these activities in ways that are not posing risks to other. That's what it means to be an adult.

The moral panic around secondhand smoke is what bothers a lot of smokers. Having smoked in the past I will often join smokers to outdoor areas where they smoke just to chat without partaking and the restrictions are often really difficult to work around so I understand where the opinion comes from, even though I'm a fan of the restrictions generally.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#613

Post by LtWorf »

noduerme wrote: post #318
forgetfreeman wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misspelled "can't be bothered to contribute to the wellbeing of the people around us". Incidentally, you think wearing a rated mask for a couple hours qualifies as "suffering"? When did notionally adult humans get this soft? Try working 10 hours straight in a tyvek bunny suit and full face respiratory PPE. We'd be carting you off my jobsite in a wheelbarrow after 30 minutes.

So, I also think politesse is really a critical skill and function in society. I've never smoked in close proximity to anyone without asking them if they minded if I lit up first. I also have never coughed on an airplane. Never. Not once. I've flown upwards of 200,000 miles in my life. I don't understand this urge people have to spread their germs as soon as they get seated and buckled in. I know the air is dry; cont…

> without asking them if they minded if I lit up first

It's impolite to ask.

> I also have never coughed on an airplane

lol, sure

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#614

Post by LtWorf »

kortilla wrote: post #302
jdkoeck wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing how backwards you got things there. The mental gymnastics you went through! Do you really think the air was cleaner in planes when people smoked in them? And you think children coughing is worse than smoking ? Jesus. By the way, I hope you know there are Covid vaccines now, but I hesitate to ask your opinion on them.

The person you are replying to suggests that covid is higher risk for a 3 hour exposure than second hand smoke, which is the correct risk analysis. Only a covid-denier would suggest differently.

The person also presumes coughing = covid… when in planes the air is dry and coughing is somewhat normal.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#615

Post by BizarroLand »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #612
BizarroLand wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just read some extremely refined copium in text form. This person has some major cognitive dissonance about the health and safety of smoking cigarettes and is dissociating from the dissonance with poetic drivel. Tobacco is unhealthy to consume. It's okay in small, occasional doses, your body can probably shrug off a few draws from a ceremonial peace pipe like it was nothing. But smoking every day or multiple time…

Don't be silly. Is your home's air filtered correctly? Did you scratch your face after touching a public doorknob? I hope you're not using "poetic drivel" to justify use of a gas stove when we know it leads to combustion byproducts in the air. You better be eating healthy all the time too, or else only copium is justifying your food choices. Nobody is saying that cigarettes or nicotine is healthy. The warnings exist…

The dangers of smoking are not equatable to the dangers of unfiltered house air.

Smoking is a known carcinogen with a known increase in death rate on top of all of the things you listed. In fact smokers probably also have the exact same air quality and environmental dangers that you listed but have added smoking on top of that.

Sure, have fun, it's your life. Smoke away. Just don't believe lies about "organic tobacco" being healthy for you. It's not.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#616

Post by Karrot_Kream »

globular-toast wrote: post #450
nine_k wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT nicotine is the lesser evil. It's addictve, and somehow toxic, but not hugely. What makes cigarettes so vile is the actual smoke. The tars, the CO, the nitrous mess that's needed to keep the cigarette from extinguishing. The filter helps, but not a lot. A cigarette without any nicotine would still damage health a lot. Fortunately, the addicts, and those who want the nicotine high, have the option of vaping now…

Nicotine isn't a particularly difficult addiction in the grand scheme of things. It takes most people only a week or two to overcome nicotine addiction. Alcohol and opiates are on a different level. Cigarettes, on the other hand, are extremely addictive. There's something about putting a little stick in your mouth, inhaling, tasting it, then exhaling a cloud of smoke/vapour. I was given a nicotine-free disposable e-c…

Oral fixations are tough for some of us. A former coworker and I found ourselves utterly addicted to chewing gum after our office began offering gum as a free perk. I've cut it out of my life because I found myself going through a pack of gum in a day. No nicotine at all, just regular chewing gum.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#617

Post by LtWorf »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #263
ornornor wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Switzerland recently and I was very unpleasantly surprised at the general attitude towards smoking here. It’s routine to see someone hold an infant or child in one hand and a smoke in the other. It’s technically forbidden to smoke in train stations but there is no enforcement and people will smoke everywhere anyway. Same thing for underground parkings. The “rule” seems to be that if you can somehow see the…

Terraces in bars are now just smoking areas in countries that implemented an indoor smoking ban. Some places try implement an X meters from entrances rule, but its a waste of time.

In Sweden they banned smoking on them, and the place risks their alcool license. So they are quite strict about it.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#618

Post by LtWorf »

Kiro wrote: post #339
nibbleshifter wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terraces in bars are now just smoking areas in countries that implemented an indoor smoking ban. Some places try implement an X meters from entrances rule, but its a waste of time.

How is it a waste of time? It has done wonders in Sweden.

Just because they risk the alcool license.

In the bus stops nobody cares. In general, smokers aren't the most empathetic kind of people.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#619

Post by PaulRobinson »

aliqot wrote: post #587
PaulRobinson wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe someone coming in contact with second hand smoke is a victim of circumstance, but someone doing the actual smoking did so on their own free will.

I'll repeat this again in the hope you'll reflect on it: your statement suggests you do not understand addiction.

Addiction subverts free will.

Smoking is no less a serious form of addiction than any other you can imagine, the only difference is the consequence to other people is curtailed in comparison.

Agree to disagree as much as you want: you come across as plain ignorant in the eyes of anybody who understands the issue.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#620

Post by PaulRobinson »

throw827474737 wrote: post #462
PaulRobinson wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or pleases you every time you do it. Like, playing a game, or reading a book, or eating your favourite food. Now imagine someone telling you that you don't have to do that, it's just a choice. Imagine being deprived of it and being guilt-tripped into it. Sure you…

As an ex smoker, I found quitting smoking one of the easiest things to do, just knew and decided it is time to stop now.. so I'm always surprised why is that. Also recently just going interval fasting for first time in my life because becoming a bit fat, not any problem, at all strangely. I wonder why that is, I wouldn't think I have a super strong will or just cannot be addicted, if I consider gaming or other procra…

Well done for quitting.

Now, perhaps, imagine for one second, your experience is not like other people's.

Objectively, based on actual studies, smoking is incredibly hard to quit.

Please don't try and undermine that because you sit at the edge of the distribution curve. I'm glad that you do, but you are an outlier, and don't get to condemn all the other evidence on the basis of that.

Post reply on HN