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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#581

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

gambiting wrote: post #317
swores wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely buy pouches of tobacco to be used like snus in the UK (and I'm almost certain that was the case before Brexit, too). Unless "snus" has some specific definition that's illegal and the UK sells an alternative? Not sure, last time I tried snus was in Finland over a decade ago.

Actual snus(powdered tabbaco sold and advertised as a product you put up your nose) isn't legal for sale in the UK: https://www.buynicotinepouches.co.uk/blogs/news/buying-snus-...

Hm. That would be 'Schnupftabak' here. Aeons ago I actually used the white powdered menthol variants in ways which could be mistaken for something else. Made for some hilarious situations :-)

I see it's still legal in .de, and according to wikipedia has no tobacco-taxes on it since 1993! The real stuff, not only that white grapesugar/menthol stuff.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#582

Post by grishka »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

> You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"?

This was still a thing in Russia around 10 years ago until it became illegal to smoke pretty much anywhere public (tobacco advertising was also completely banned and cigarettes can now only be sold from a grey cabinet with a price list on it). I don't know how it worked in other parts of the world, but here, this separation between smoking and non-smoking areas in restaurants was very much notional. The non-smoking area would lack ashtrays on the tables, but it still smelled quite a lot.

Some bars and restaurants serve hookahs inside, to this day. These were never made illegal.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#583

Post by fknorangesite »

leokennis wrote: post #437
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

In The Netherlands it's embarrassing. They basically had to beg supermarkets to stop selling cigarettes and then give them a years long transition period. It could be very easy. Ban the sales of tobacco to everyone born after "YYYY", make cigarettes cost €50 per pack, make smoking when not allowed a €100 fine, deposit all tax from tobacco sales into a national program where people get free "exercise credits" to be re…

> Ban the sales of tobacco to everyone born after "YYYY"

This is what New Zealand just did: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/new-zealand-pa...

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#584

Post by TheRealPomax »

colechristensen wrote: post #25
TheRealPomax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could…

That is missing the point of letting people make their own choices.

Not really, it feels like you forgot the distinction between personal choice, where the decision affects only you, and group choice, where a decision is made for, and affects everyone in a group. Smoking falls in that second category, so it's not just your decision to make, the entire group gets to weigh in. So they did. Democracy works, even if (especially if) you don't like the result.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#585

Post by edgyquant »

jjfoooo6 wrote: post #557
edgyquant wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder how much WW2 forcing people into planes helped to kill some of the fear of it.

I doubt flying in planes doing WW2 decreased fear of flying

The fear you speak of doesn’t come from the flying bit. It definitely let people know the flying tech is fairly safe.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#586

Post by fknorangesite »

moffkalast wrote: post #438
skupig wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect is also stronger, lasts longer, and is less addictive than coffee. The average user isn't smoking a joint per hour like it was tobacco. Sure, it's definitely not healthy, but everyone does something that trades longevity for fun. :-)

Still, I'm not sure why someone would bother with the risks of smoking when edibles exist.

Because I don't always want to write off my entire day.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#587

Post by aliqot »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #556
aliqot wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance smokers are not victims of circumstance.

Yes, they are.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe someone coming in contact with second hand smoke is a victim of circumstance, but someone doing the actual smoking did so on their own free will.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#588

Post by baud147258 »

afroisalreadyin wrote: post #435
evenw wrote: post #90

The SAGE consoles not only had an ashtray, but also an integrated lighter. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SAGE_console.jpeg

That is rather incredible. "Let us put a tray for an intensely hot object on this security-crucial hardware, because people are so addicted to it".

well, they knew most user would addicted to it (and would likely smoke while using them), so they chose to protect their hardware by providing a safe place to dump the ashes

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#589

Post by larve »

astura wrote: post #569
larve wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrow view of addiction is also missing the fact that smoking has many positive effects. I smoked from age 13 to age 38, and I’m pretty sure smoking made my life better overall. Besides allowing me to socialize more easily, it’s an incredibly potent stress reliever which allowed me to deal with sensory overload and other stressors (I’m autistic). Nothing comes even close to how quickly it can defuse stressful s…

I'm confused - the comment you are replying to basically says the Navy can freely ban smoking onboard submarines and end up with no real consequences other than some mildly grumpy sailors. It made no moral judgement about smoking or addiction. Did you mean to reply to another comment?

I was replying at that level to echo the other comments. It's reacting to the "they merely chose to do so" part. It might not be the best parent to reply to, but it's what spawned a whole thread I wanted to sibling.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#590

Post by Marsymars »

throwaway847477 wrote: post #515
pigsty wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is incredibly addictive. Sugar stimulates the same pathways as opiates and provides instant massive hits of dopamine. Many people who manage to lose weight end up relapsing. Most people end up gaining all the weight back. [1] It’s far higher than the relapse rate amongst former smokers. And really, just look at exploding obesity rates around the world. Yes, smoking is a choice. Yes, people will mock smokers for…

Throwaway account for obvious reasons. When I was a kid I knew I would drink, from about the age of 8. I don't know why, I just knew - although I didn't start till I was around 13. I never thought I would smoke, even though most of the adults I knew did smoke. As for why I started - I was at a party, around 14 years old, and the host's parents locked the booze away - so I thought "I'll do this instead". In my experie…

> Caffeine - never been an issue for me - I feel like it has no effect whatsoever. But the people who say "don't speak to me before I've had some coffee" certainly sound like I did when I was using cocaine.

I don’t have notable experience with addictive-type substances other than caffeine, but I can chime in there - I went cold-turkey from drinking 4-5 cups of coffee per day, and I was pretty surprised by how awful I felt the first day. Two days later I felt perfectly fine without caffeine.

Now I drink one cup per day, only before noon, often decaf. If I skip a day, I don’t notice any effect.

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