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German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

reuters.com

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Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#81

Post by pasc1878 »

lxgr wrote: post #36
Waterluvian wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we need to make a big overview map of what payment is like around the world. Because I believe you. But I also have only ever experienced PayPal as an entirely unnecessary middleman. So I think there may be regional differences in play. I can’t remember the last time I typed in a credit card number. Giving it to PayPal seems like a less secure option, given how free from consequences companies are. And th…

As a customer, you can still use your credit card at Paypal and file disputes with your issuer as usual. The merchant just does not get your card number directly, which anecdotally many users perceive as an advantage. As for German regional effects: Paypal allows payments via SEPA Direct Debit there too (~ACH), which are free but very risky for merchants. Many customers don’t have any online-usable debit card, so tha…

I am in the UK.

As an anecdote - not passing on my credit card details is one reason why I use paypal and then pay Paypal by credit card to get the good disputes process and I trust paypal more than a unknown random place on the web. I now do prefer to use Apple Pay in this case as I trust Apple more than paypal.

I do make larger purchases with my credit card to make any dispute easier.

For plumbers and others who don't take credit cards I use the direct bank payment.

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#82

Post by lxgr »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #57
lnsru wrote: post #6

I love PayPal. It might be another be-evil type corporation. But it is just sooo convenient. I am just curious if there is some alternative to it in Germany. I don’t want to give my bank account number to every random online shop. Credit card yes, but I am too lazy for entering the numbers every time. Edit: I am not kenn on saving my credit card number somewhere digitally. Browser, password manager or a text file are…

In Europe we have working debit cards, so PayPal is redundant and hardly ever used.

Not in Germany. Many large issuers still only provide debit cards that can only be used in stores and for cash withdrawals (Maestro or VPAY), and some even only domestically at that (Girocard).

PayPal fills exactly that gap for many merchants (by supporting SEPA Direct Debit, which is ubiquitous but has effectively no fraud controls or online amount pre-authorization).

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#83

Post by pasc1878 »

gempir wrote: post #17
Daniel_sk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1Password (or even plain Keychain) can auto-complete all your debit/credit card numbers. But yes - I prefer not to type it in. For security reasons I am only entering cards directly if the website is using a bank payment gateway. Otherwise I am just generating a random one-use debit card through my bank app.

It's just very nice layer of abstraction. I don't want every shop I buy from to know which Bank I use or my credit card number, because that's sensitive information. Also when my credit card number changes because my bank randomly decides I'm at risk for fraud I have to login to every service and enter my new CC. In 10 year of Paypal usage I have never once had an issue with my account being locked. Yes there are som…

No. If you use 1password or similar your credit card details are in one place only.

You do not allow merchants to save your credit card details.

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#84

Post by QuarterReptile »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #75
em-bee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't that the same as credit cards not allowing to charge extra for using them? which btw is now also not allowed by EU rules.

I do not think it was ever allowed. EDIT: I did not realize you were talking specifically about Germany. In France you had a lot of "minimum 10€ to pay with CC", now this is mostly gone after COVID.

I think that rule disappeared long ago in the US because apparently people spend more with CC.

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#85

Post by wefarrell »

em-bee wrote: post #46
cgeier wrote: post #27

From the article: "The regulator is investigating in particular rules that say merchants may not offer their goods and services at a lower price to customers who choose a cheaper payment method than PayPal." That does sound rather uncompetitive.

isn't that the same as credit cards not allowing to charge extra for using them? which btw is now also not allowed by EU rules.

That's also pretty anticompetitive ant it's crazy that this behavior has been tolerated for so long. Regulators have been asleep at the wheel.

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#86

Post by nikeee »

Deukhoofd wrote: post #19
lnsru wrote: post #6

I love PayPal. It might be another be-evil type corporation. But it is just sooo convenient. I am just curious if there is some alternative to it in Germany. I don’t want to give my bank account number to every random online shop. Credit card yes, but I am too lazy for entering the numbers every time. Edit: I am not kenn on saving my credit card number somewhere digitally. Browser, password manager or a text file are…

Not Germany, but here in The Netherlands the banks just developed an online payment system together 18 years ago, and everyone uses that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL

In Germany, there is "giropay" [1], which is a service offered by most banks. The Wikipedia article states that it's similar to iDEAL.

Giropay is some kind of federalized solution where you enter your BIC on a landing page and get redirected to the interface of your local bank to complete the purchase.

It isn't well supported, except at some unexpected sites like Ali Express.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giropay

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#88

Post by Tomte »

nikeee wrote: post #86
Deukhoofd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Germany, but here in The Netherlands the banks just developed an online payment system together 18 years ago, and everyone uses that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL

In Germany, there is "giropay" [1], which is a service offered by most banks. The Wikipedia article states that it's similar to iDEAL. Giropay is some kind of federalized solution where you enter your BIC on a landing page and get redirected to the interface of your local bank to complete the purchase. It isn't well supported, except at some unexpected sites like Ali Express. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giro…

giropay is a merger of three different bank-developed systems. And it shows.

Because banks generally don't support all features, only the ones they already used to support.

My bank, for example, does not support person-to-person transfers, only online payment at web shops.

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#89

Post by edgyquant »

lxgr wrote: post #79
edgyquant wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s standard now but not the law as lots of places do charge a fee. Id actually even say it isn’t standard, as a lot of court houses charge a processing fee when you use a card over cash (or did before the pandemic, haven’t been to one since)

> It’s standard now but not the law In fact, surcharges are now prohibited by EU law (as long as the card is covered by the interchange cap): https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/making...

We’re talking about in the US here

Re: German cartel office initiates proceedings against PayPal

#90

Post by Linosaurus »

kzrdude wrote: post #56
TacoSteemers wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Dutch: https://www.postnl.nl/versturen/postzegels/postzegels-kopen/... You buy a code that you write down in the location where normally the stamp would be.

Just for fun, seems easily susceptible to a man-in-the-middle attack. Just take a postcard, copy their code, discard the original card, or just send the original later than the copy. :)

Yes, but then you are stealing mail. Which is bad. For a relatively small payoff.
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