Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

openai.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–298 of 298 posts

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#291

Post by teruakohatu »

bayindirh wrote: post #290
teruakohatu wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few DL papers are 100% fully reproducible, in that you can get identical results and generate identical checkpoints, even when source is attached and benchmark datasets are used. I would say the vast majority published are not even close to be able to be reproduced. Full size LLMs are not able to be reproduced because the datasets are copyright and not distributable and you need millions of dollars worth of comp…

I'm not actually expecting them to be 100% reproducible. I'm more than familiar with the work required to do that. What I'm expecting is not holding back the secret sauce, as seen in some (or many) publications. My gripe is not limited to DL/ML/AI scope either. When I try to compare my results with the papers I cite, I generally can't find the formulae or the detailed method to reproduce the numerical method the pape…

> My gripe is not limited to DL/ML/AI scope either. When I try to compare my results with the papers I cite, I generally can't find the formulae or the detailed method to reproduce the numerical method the paper claims, and this leaves us at the dark.

I agree. So many don't even both including hyperparams, even when they publish the code. The Github Issues for their code are littered with questions asking about hyperparams.

> All I can do is saying "Paper23 cites these results, and we surpass them at this, we are even at that, and they are better at the other thing", which I'm not comfortable doing.

If you are achieving better results, on the same dataset, and you are not cheating in anyway, and others can reproduce your results, then I don't know what is wrong with saying you got a better result.

Issues somewhat arise when you are using better hardware with more parameters or larger batch sizes than the original authors could have attempted. I think this accounts for the results in many papers.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#292

Post by koheripbal »

meowkit wrote: post #215
OnlineGladiator wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you agree with me that OpenAI is poorly named. "We wanted to be open, but we couldn't - we kept the name anyway."

The argument then becomes how to interpret "Open", not that you both agree. If they keep publishing their research, then OpenAI seems like a fine name to me.

Semantic debates are largely irrelevant. It is what it is.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#293

Post by rvz »

stale2002 wrote: post #165
rvz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The methods are different but the strategy is the same. They have used this strategy with Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), VSCode + extensions, Winget, Microsoft Teams, GitHub, and now OpenAI. Microsoft can afford to maintain all these offerings for free whilst competitors suffocate and struggle to compete with their paid offerings. You can't compete with free, especially when there is a company who can afford to r…

You are still missing the point. A free, quality product is great. We all benefit from that. The concern is the last "extinguish" part at the end. But there is no reason for Microsoft to shut down GitHub, or VSCode or whatever. Consumers just get to have a great free product.

> You are still missing the point.

You have missed the big picture.

> The concern is the last "extinguish" part at the end.

The methods are different but the strategy is the same. The 'Embrace' and 'Extend' part is openly visible. The extinguish part however is less obvious:

'Extinguish' in this case, refers to competitors being unable to compete with 'free' (as in beer) or close to free products that offer more and are 100 times better than their competitors paid offerings.

> But there is no reason for Microsoft to shut down GitHub, or VSCode or whatever.

Not my point. The competitors / alternatives are the ones that will shut down, over Microsoft branded ones.

There was a reason why Atom was shut down over VSCode. The same as to why the creator of Appget could not compete with Microsoft's winget and then appget shut itself down.

The same will happen with OpenAI's exclusive deal with Microsoft. Majority of users using OpenAI's API over the competitors and alternatives paid offerings will end up shutting down.

> Consumers just get to have a great free product.

Exactly. Microsoft was clever to target developers as the new source of customer. Windows already won the desktop.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#294

Post by rvz »

linhns wrote: post #173
rvz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The methods are different but the strategy is the same. They have used this strategy with Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), VSCode + extensions, Winget, Microsoft Teams, GitHub, and now OpenAI. Microsoft can afford to maintain all these offerings for free whilst competitors suffocate and struggle to compete with their paid offerings. You can't compete with free, especially when there is a company who can afford to r…

Nothing is free. If it's free, you're the product

Microsoft already knows that is a given in all their products.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#295

Post by beams_of_light »

scifibestfi wrote: post #208

Google recently said they are recalibrating the level of risk they're willing to take with releasing this technology. OpenAI's CEO responded saying > "recalibrate" means "increase" obviously. > disappointing to see this six-week development. openai will continually decrease the level of risk we are comfortable taking with new models as they get more powerful, not the other way around. How does this resolve? OpenAI no…

I've heard from Google employees that the internal AI they use is better than ChatGPT, but the leadership doesn't want to make it generally available.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#296

Post by OnlineGladiator »

throwaway29812 wrote: post #267
OnlineGladiator wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Russia never invaded Ukraine. You can stretch the meaning of a word all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the people misrepresenting the word are acting in bad faith.

What?

According to Russia, they never invaded Ukraine. Russia is acting in bad faith. The point is you can misconstrue a word all you want, but you're only damaging your own credibility. OpenAI is likewise acting in bad faith.

It's the same story with Google, and Facebook, and Tesla, and on and on and on. When the leaders are unethical you shouldn't expect anything else.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#297

Post by [deleted] »

rvz wrote: post #293
stale2002 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are still missing the point. A free, quality product is great. We all benefit from that. The concern is the last "extinguish" part at the end. But there is no reason for Microsoft to shut down GitHub, or VSCode or whatever. Consumers just get to have a great free product.

> You are still missing the point. You have missed the big picture. > The concern is the last "extinguish" part at the end. The methods are different but the strategy is the same. The 'Embrace' and 'Extend' part is openly visible. The extinguish part however is less obvious: 'Extinguish' in this case, refers to competitors being unable to compete with 'free' (as in beer) or close to free products that offer more and…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#298

Post by 93po »

spyder wrote: post #135
davidy123 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends on how much the public accepts results without sources, aka no credit, aka rampant breaking of social norms and copyright, as well as destroying the easy ability to verify something. In many ways, OpenAI and anyone who supports it are trying to pull an Uber here, but shift the Overton on something indescribably larger than transportation licenses. They want to Borg global intelligence (though, of…

OpenAI already has a model to improve factual accuracy and provide citations: https://openai.com/blog/webgpt/ It's probably not too hard for them to tune ChatGPT and the upcoming GPT4 that way, and I think it's very likely they will do something like that in Bing.

I think it'd be really nice for there to be an effort within GPT to have responses that don't mimic the bias of information found online and instead draw its own conclusions based evidence, and the ability to scrutinize different types of evidence.
Post reply on HN