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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

clivethompson.medium.com

511–520 of 668 posts

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could smoke on the Hindenberg . Yes. On a dirigible held aloft by hydrogen, they had a smoking room:( https://www.airships.net/hindenburg-smoking-room/ .

Hindenberg got a bad rap. It just happened to look scary and was caught on film. 1/3 of the Hindenberg passengers survived the crash. Way better survival rate than plane crashes.

It was better. About ⅔ survived. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster:

“The accident caused 35 fatalities (13 passengers and 22 crewmen) from the 97 people on board (36 passengers and 61 crewmen), and an additional fatality on the ground.”

That’s still worse than modern airplanes, though. https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/06/15/how-to-survive-a-...:

“According to a study by the European Transport Safety Council, plane crashes technically have a 90% survivability rate”

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#512

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

Me and my buddies would hang out with travelling Europeans at local hostels in the US, but are like "eh but then we'd have to hang out with smokers"

I worked for a big MNC a few years back with big offices in Europe.

We’d meet for senior leader meetings and it was pretty stark. None of the US people smoked and 80% of the Europeans did (small sample).

When a European VP had her birthday we joked and asked her if her colleagues bought her a carton of smokes.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#513
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard of people using nicotine gum, patch, or lozenge for situations like this.

You can vape up your sleeve on a plane, but snus is the best way.

In the US, the major airlines prohibit use of e-cigarettes onboard. Do not vape on a commercial airliner.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

I worked at a place where a floor of an office building was converted to a data center starting in the 70s. In doing so, they built a false wall in front of the windows.

Early in my career I worked in backups, and we had a dedicated fiber network, which ran in the space between the windows and fake wall. I had to do some maintenance back there and it was shocking - the windows were coated in this nasty yellow residue and smelled vaguely like cigarettes, even after almost 20 years.

The old timers laughed at my horror and said that people would sit at their desks and smoke packs of cigarettes, every day. At one point there was an employee who would wheel a cart around collecting ashes. The ubiquity of smoking was shocking to me - I’m glad it’s behind us.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#515
post #485
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Countless people never smoked. Countless people stopped. Some people act like quitting smoking is some insufferable thing that others will never understand. Everyone has bad stuff they do that’s just as hard to quit. While smoking is a choice, not all choices are the same. Not all choices are weighted by a chemical addiction, comparing quitting smoking to bad food or exercise choices trivialises it in an unnecessar…

Food is incredibly addictive. Sugar stimulates the same pathways as opiates and provides instant massive hits of dopamine. Many people who manage to lose weight end up relapsing. Most people end up gaining all the weight back. [1] It’s far higher than the relapse rate amongst former smokers. And really, just look at exploding obesity rates around the world. Yes, smoking is a choice. Yes, people will mock smokers for…

Throwaway account for obvious reasons.

When I was a kid I knew I would drink, from about the age of 8. I don't know why, I just knew - although I didn't start till I was around 13. I never thought I would smoke, even though most of the adults I knew did smoke. As for why I started - I was at a party, around 14 years old, and the host's parents locked the booze away - so I thought "I'll do this instead".

In my experience (and I'm no expert and I'd never want to put words into anyone else's mouth), addiction is a mixture of different factors. There's why you started in the first place, there's a psychological need that is going unfulfilled, there's habit and there's actual physical addiction.

For me:

LSD - not a problem. I had a great night out, thought "that will never be bettered" so never took it again.

MDMA/Ecstasy - again, not a problem. It was entirely situational - go out clubbing, take some pills - and when I stopped clubbing I stopped taking it.

Cannabis - I smoked weed constantly for around 10 years, often rolling one up last thing at night so it was the first thing I did in the morning. I stopped when I actually had to start working for a living and I couldn't afford the lack of time it caused. So I would say it was basically habit and boredom that kept me at it.

Drinking - I used to drink heavily, daily, for many many years. I was never a "hide the vodka in the toilet cistern" type, I just would go out and have a drink and not stop till I fell asleep. Eventually a combination of health issues and being fed up with wondering if I'd made a fool of myself last night made me try to stop. And it was HARD. I never had serious physical symptoms, but alcohol is everywhere. It's changed a bit now, but buying soft drinks when out was frowned upon and so many of my routines involved it. I stopped with the help of reddit (r/stopdrinking is the most wonderful place on earth full of kind and supportive people) and lots of fizzy drinks and ice cream (and yes, I put on weight, but I figured one issue at a time, and now I've lost that weight and am much healthier all round). Definitely habit, social/psychological and physical.

Cocaine - 2 spells using cocaine heavily. Once I used to use it to get me out of bed in the morning, but it was easy to stop. Second time I used it every day for around 18 months. I think this was because I was in a bad way mentally and I just needed to silence the noise in my head. It's actually very difficult to take cocaine like that - it doesn't last long, it hurts, your nose is constantly blocked and it's a pain to prepare. For me, psychological void.

Nicotine - the hardest of the lot to stop. Sort of. I read the Allen Carr book and stopped smoking 20 per day almost immediately. But I just couldn't stop smoking when I went out - it was intrinsically linked with "having a good time" (see why I started). Like cocaine, it's short-lived, but it's so easy to "top up" again, so you gain a series of little "boosts" throughout the day. Of course, you need the boosts because your brain stops functioning as it wears off. So it builds habits and has a physical effect. In the end I got hypnotised which helped me stop when going out - but I still often ask friends if I can hold their cigarettes, just so I've got something in my fingers. This is a mix of all of the factors combined.

Caffeine - never been an issue for me - I feel like it has no effect whatsoever. But the people who say "don't speak to me before I've had some coffee" certainly sound like I did when I was using cocaine.

I would say in none of the cases were "effort" and "willpower" part of what made me stop - I had to figure out why it was happening and deal with the underlying causes.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#516
A friend’s grandparents visited the Soviet Union during the 1980 Moscow Olympics. Because they defied the American boycott (they had already bought tickets) the Soviet government made a point of showing them around. There is a National Geographic article about their visit that closes by mentioning that Soviet life is filled with tyranny: for instance you were not allowed to smoke on the airplanes there!

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#517
I've worked in FinTech for a while and I remember one of the old timers at an investment bank trading floor telling me that the desks used to have ashtrays built into them.

They were right on the edge of the desk so the cleaning people could just sweep th ashes into a trashcan.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#518
post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

As a kid, my first trip to Disney World happened in April of 1986. I only have fleeting memories of that trip, but two stand out: 1) Chernobyl on the headlines of papers in Florida and 2) how the smoke-filled cabin of the airplane stuffed me up to the point of being barely able to breathe.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#519
post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

I spent my freshman year of high school in rural Kentucky. Many of my classmates lived on tobacco farms. We had a _student_ smoking lounge at school!

We had an outdoor spot with a roof and one wall called the smoking section. This was in California in 1982. I think they got rid of it in '83.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too many times I have had people go out of their way to inhale my second hand smoke, and then complain about it. Too many times I have had people go out of their way to walk in front of my 3 ton truck driving 100 mph in a pedestrian zone to almost get hit, and then complain about it.

> Too many times I have had people go out of their way to walk in front of my 3 ton truck driving 100 mph in a pedestrian zone to almost get hit, and then complain about it. Maybe you shouldn't be doing 100mph around other people.

Sure, if you stop smoking around other people ;-)
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