Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree that most of the data needed for a generic prescreening is available from lots of data brokerage (doesn’t necessarily need a credit bureau), but that DoanLaw.com article I read to verify my memory states that credit bureaus may legally sell some data points that can only accurately be sourced from a credit bureau.
Would you mind sharing the article? I'd like to read more about which specific data points. Thanks!
How Equifax Became a Private IRS
131–140 of 190 posts
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#132The final act of the dystopic digital transition we are witnessing is when the (until recently ringfenced) information flows of the broader financial system start getting commingled with the other digital activity already being collected and monitored. With the headlong rush to eliminate physical cash soon there will be no opt-out whatsoever. As the world of old oligopolies dies and a worse one emerges, the grotesque…
Dick predicted all of this before many of us were even alive.
There is likely no escape from an inhuman future.
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't disagree that the companies are selling your contact information and most likely some fuzzy information ranges (age, gender, martial status, rent/own, income) that's all that's really needed to snail mail "pre approvals" hint you're not really approved for anything until you sign to allow them to actually pull your credit. Preapproved just means you meet the minimum threshold of potentially making them more m…
Outside of state laws and HIPAA, what national laws in the United States limit information sharing from a private party?
I believe there are a number of siloed categories:
- HIPPA is for health care providers and their vendors
- Traditional wired telecom has long been protected. And fraud over telecom has a special wire fraud statute.
- Mail thru the USPS
- COPPA for PII of under 13 data
- Federal election law prevents election records used for commercial purposes
- basically all of the government classified data system
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
The entire point of a credit card score is to predict the future. Being bad at that because of inherent inaccuracies in their methodology is a problem.
>Being bad at that because of inherent inaccuracies in their methodology is a problem. The parent poster already mentioned that it's "not a crystal ball". It doesn't have to be perfect. Sure, there are some edge cases where it fails, but if it works 99% then it's good enough. On the flip side, do you really want a minority report like system that can predict your future credit with 100% accuracy?
99% accuracy is wildly overstating things. With low enough accuracy such predictions become actively harmful.
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
CC Annuity? Or even the implied CC fees the purchaser pays indirectly by increased prices Car payment interest? Student loans?
I’ve never had a credit card with fees. I built up a great credit score with a single, no fee card, that I paid off each month. Total cost $0. You don’t need an interest paying loan to have a good credit score.
I don't understand the US credit score at all. What's the predictive value of you paying off a mortgage based on you just shopping with a credit card? Sure if you can't pay your normal shopping cart, probably you shouldn't really be getting a mortgage, but the predictive value besides that seems lost on me. Surely a bank could just ask your payslip info and get a more accurate feel whether or not you are creditworthy?
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#136The final act of the dystopic digital transition we are witnessing is when the (until recently ringfenced) information flows of the broader financial system start getting commingled with the other digital activity already being collected and monitored. With the headlong rush to eliminate physical cash soon there will be no opt-out whatsoever. As the world of old oligopolies dies and a worse one emerges, the grotesque…
Dick predicted all of this before many of us were even alive. There is likely no escape from an inhuman future.
OTOH, was there really a time when humans were not enslaving each other in any form? I don't mean in a wide marxist term like "wage slave", but more specific kinds of bonding and control. Liberal changes in Europe in end of 18th century / beginning of 19th coincided with imported slavery from Africa and new colonies. That is freer factory worker would gain their productivity and better relative freedom while producing added value to raw materials produced by serfs elsewhere.
In 20th century you either had direct serfdom in some countries like Russia, while countries like US owned slaves indirectly by setting up large-scale production in 3rd world countries and controlling their governments.
Today we could probably breakdown the supply chain so that the lower you go by the ladder of "added value complexity", the more interchangeable and less free the people are. On the top of such chain there are managers, IT people, accountants and various service workers for the above who enjoy freedom while the bottom half of the supply chain is much more prosaic and constrained.
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#137Seriously, is it true equifax in US "sells information about how much you earn" to anyone or is the article horribly misleading? I don't know about US, but some time ago I had dealt with Equifax in UK (when getting a car loan for example, then when renting a flat) and I was told by the paperwork I was given to sign authorising them to run "a credit check" they'll get the following info only:
- confirmation of your details including an address.
- then they plug in the amount you want to borrow and depending on the financial institution doing the lending your data such as
- any bad credit you might have including arrears, court judgements etc
- amounts of existing credit you have (including CC, overdraft in your bank account. Etc).
- regular in-payments in your bank accounts
Gets collated and they get an answer: either yes, or no, and if no, there can be a different lender proposed with more flexibility, but higher cost of lending. The person running the "credit check" never sees any of the raw data except court judgements I think.
So there you go, that's how it used to work in UK few years ago.
Then, you may ask, how does equifax get access to this data? Any bank account or credit product you get in UK contains a contractual agreement that the information about it will be passed to equifax(or credit rating agencies). This includes amounts you pay into your bank account every month, but is it from employment, or your rich grandma sending you gifts equifax can't tell.
To me this sounds fairly reasonable. Especially that I can create my own login for equifax and see who has been running checks on my data and why(it requires one's permission). This sounds very different than "selling your data to the highest bidder". Right?
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> credit score pretty accurately reflect what they are supposed to measure - credit worthiness Do they? If that was true, how could we verify it, beyond an initial gut feeling? There is no published rule book or methodology for credit score calculations!
I get what you are saying but you are not the customer. The customers are lenders which rely on these scores to make lending decisions critical to their business. Presumably these lenders find these scores accurate enough to prevent enough bad loans while not turning away too many credit worthy customers. That said, obviously the models can be improved with more data. I worked for a lender for a while whose edge was…
As far as I understand (not a US citizen), the biggest thing people seem to do is:
-get a credit card
-do your normal shopping with it
But this just seems nonsensical to me, sure if you can't pay your shopping cart, a mortgage is very likely a bad idea. But what predictive value is there in this score besides that? For individuals it seems more useful to just ask payslip info instead of some weird arbitrary number to get the feeling if someone can pay you.
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve never had a credit card with fees. I built up a great credit score with a single, no fee card, that I paid off each month. Total cost $0. You don’t need an interest paying loan to have a good credit score.
I don't understand the US credit score at all. What's the predictive value of you paying off a mortgage based on you just shopping with a credit card? Sure if you can't pay your normal shopping cart, probably you shouldn't really be getting a mortgage, but the predictive value besides that seems lost on me. Surely a bank could just ask your payslip info and get a more accurate feel whether or not you are creditworthy…
I don’t follow.
Shopping with a credit card literally involves managing a line of credit.
You don’t see how that relates to creditworthiness?
You also believe purely income information is a better indicator of credit worthiness? It tells you almost nothing (which is why income plus all current expenses is used).
Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
In general, your score would immediately go down as your credit utilization would go up (outstanding balance over total available credit).
0/infinity is still zero
The balances are instantaneous balances, not ones that are being financed. So, if you use and pay off your card every month (as makes sense to me for points/cash back, ease of chargeback, and convenience), then your numerator won't be zero on most days. (For me, it's not $0 on any days, because of the timing of statements.)