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How Equifax Became a Private IRS

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#111

Post by mixmastamyk »

TheDong wrote: post #63
xxpor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, but on the other hand, the biggest rules are well known and quite simple: If you take a loan and pay it back on time, you'll have high credit. If you fail to meet your obligations, you won't. The existence of an underclass which is constantly on the edge of not being able to pay their bills is true though.

My parents taught me that debt was bad. They told me that credit cards were traps to get you into debt, that preyed on poor impulse control, and that it was better not to have one. If you can't tell, my parents grew up in a time when the credit score system didn't really matter, and didn't understand it. I did not get a credit card. I did not have any loans, for school or anything else. My credit score wasn't even a…

Same here, but it has not been a problem with good job and finances. Buying a car or renting apartments.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#112

Post by epgui »

gruez wrote: post #94
epgui wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can know in the most obvious subset of cases of error, but if your score is 573 and it's supposed to be 605, good luck figuring that out. > Is there a reason you think this isn't possible? The methodology for the calculation of credit scores is secret. You can't go on the internet and figure out how they do it. They don't tell you, they don't publish it, you can't know. Therefore you don't have the ability to che…

> You can know in the most obvious subset of cases of error, but if your score is 573 and it's supposed to be 605, good luck figuring that out. Presumably you're talking about the case where somebody never checks their credit report, goes out to get a car loan or whatever, and gets a worse interest rate because there's an error on their report. My question is, what are they supposed to do? They're already required to…

> what are they supposed to do

Just because I haven't been repeating myself enough, the first thing I'm suggesting they could do is publish their credit scoring methodology.

Your comment is irrelevant to what I said.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#113

Post by epgui »

xyzelement wrote: post #87
epgui wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can know in the most obvious subset of cases of error, but if your score is 573 and it's supposed to be 605, good luck figuring that out. > Is there a reason you think this isn't possible? The methodology for the calculation of credit scores is secret. You can't go on the internet and figure out how they do it. They don't tell you, they don't publish it, you can't know. Therefore you don't have the ability to che…

I understand what you're saying, I just think it's mainly a contrived scenario. Minute differences in the score (573 vs 605) don't really impact you and there's nobody trying to replicate the calculation to make sure they get whatever it's "supposed to be" - whatever that means. The more likely scenario where someone is going to troubleshoot is "I paid off all my debts and have a lot of unused credit, how come my sco…

> Minute differences in the score (573 vs 605) don't really impact you

Don't they, though? How do you know? For a person who gets refused access to some important service or product because they're just 1 point under some arbitrary and unknown threshold, yes there's an impact.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#114

Post by vuln »

thephyber wrote: post #80
vuln wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that the companies are selling your contact information and most likely some fuzzy information ranges (age, gender, martial status, rent/own, income) that's all that's really needed to snail mail "pre approvals" hint you're not really approved for anything until you sign to allow them to actually pull your credit. Preapproved just means you meet the minimum threshold of potentially making them more m…

Agree that most of the data needed for a generic prescreening is available from lots of data brokerage (doesn’t necessarily need a credit bureau), but that DoanLaw.com article I read to verify my memory states that credit bureaus may legally sell some data points that can only accurately be sourced from a credit bureau.

Would you mind sharing the article? I'd like to read more about which specific data points. Thanks!

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#115

Post by raverbashing »

refurb wrote: post #43
coderintherye wrote: post #26

One thing Matt mentions but doesn't go into is how this could (should?) be a government service. In fact, there is the IRS's IVES program: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/inco... but it is already fairly antiquated. There's a great opportunity here for the IRS to provide this service (with revenue from charging the requesting entities), with citizens being self-sovereign over what data is shar…

There is no free lunch. Limiting credit checks to AGI just means everyone will assumed to have an unknown credit history and will have much higher rates. You ready to get a mortgage at prime plus 5% instead of prime plus 1%? But let me guess, we could create a law about that? Having the government do things doesn’t magically mean market forces don’t apply any more.

> You ready to get a mortgage at prime plus 5% instead of prime plus 1%?

And for that I had to pay interest/fees on all the other crap so that I "build a credit history"

Interesting, I wonder if someone did the math on that (and that 5% is overinflated I think not even the NINA loans were that high)

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#116

Post by nextstep »

The US is taking corruption to institutionalized levels probably never seen before in any society. However, the media is so tightly controlled by corporate monopolies that the people of the US still believe they live in a democracy.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#117

Post by refurb »

33955985 wrote: post #45
refurb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. How does “checking if people are credit worthy” reinforce inequity? If you can’t repay, you shouldn’t be taking on debt. If anything it prevents people from taking on debt they can’t afford, stopping them from further inequity. And you can opt out. Don’t use credit at all. (edit: of course a credit record will still exist, but it won't matter if you don't use credit) This sounds like a bunch of p…

> And you can opt out. Don’t use credit at all. Nope. Whether you use credit or not, the credit bureaus collect information about you and share that with all manner of other companies, including employers. Also these systems have inherent racial biases. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/credit-cards/from-inherent-ra...

But if you don’t use credit the system any rating has no impact on your life?

Again, this seems like people want low interest borrowing without the “icky” problem of having to answer for their past failure to pay debt.

The world doesn’t work that way.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#118

Post by refurb »

fragmede wrote: post #53
refurb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. How does “checking if people are credit worthy” reinforce inequity? If you can’t repay, you shouldn’t be taking on debt. If anything it prevents people from taking on debt they can’t afford, stopping them from further inequity. And you can opt out. Don’t use credit at all. (edit: of course a credit record will still exist, but it won't matter if you don't use credit) This sounds like a bunch of p…

You're assuming the database is 100% accurate, and people never have their identify stolen. Which is demonstrably false.

No I’m not. Accuracy has nothing to do with my argument.

And no system is 100% accurate, so your point is moot anyways.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#119

Post by atdrummond »

consp wrote: post #109
atdrummond wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My credit is tanked from an ex opening up accounts in my name and running up the tab while I was being treated for leukaemia and Crohns. Six years later and I’m still fixing the damage.

Question from someone not in the us: can you legally open a creditcard in someone else's name or does it have to involve some form of fraud? I'm pretty sure my application was only valid when signed by the requester by that was in Europe and rules may differ. I do know you can open them for shared accounts, but that is not what I am talking about.

It was/is fraud, yes. Typically the way you open a card in someone else’s name on your account is by adding them as an authorized user.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#120

Post by hyperman1 »

Supermancho wrote: post #89
vuln wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only when you give said company authorization to review your credit worthiness, then they may attempt to pull your credit information. Your information is not broadcasted to all companies in existence only those who you've authorized (or have been authorized on your behalf by a malicious actor / identify thief). This is not udp.

> Your information is not broadcasted to all companies in existence only those who you've authorized Famously, Experian ("freecreditreport.com") sold partially filled form information. This is before submission and up to 9 times. Feel free to go to the site signup today and watch the information being streamed (in a hashed form) from your developer console.

This seems a great opportunity. Fill in false information, don't submit it, and watch your credit score raise?
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