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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#421

Post by PaulRobinson »

pigsty wrote: post #255
PaulRobinson wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or pleases you every time you do it. Like, playing a game, or reading a book, or eating your favourite food. Now imagine someone telling you that you don't have to do that, it's just a choice. Imagine being deprived of it and being guilt-tripped into it. Sure you…

I mean, unless as a child you had abusive parents who forced you to smoke, it’s absolutely a choice. There are people who can’t stop doing stupid stuff for attention (like breaking electronics for YouTube views or whatever), and we don’t blame “idiots” commenting online for their habits. There are people who refuse to eat vegetables and only eat junk food and we also don’t blame “idiots.” Yes. It’s addictive. But per…

Do you say this to all addicts?

There are countless reasons people make bad choices: peer pressure, to calm anxiety, dealing with depression, and yeah, sometimes, abusive parents.

But you are refusing them their status of victim of circumstance and saying "well, sucks to be you", and taking the high ground. Good for you, it must be great up there never having made a bad choice.

The moment somebody makes a poor choice does not mean we should then insist the game is over for them and it's their fault. That doesn't help them make better choices in future.

Quitting smoking is incredibly hard. I've done it multiple times sometimes for years at a time - that's how hard it is - and you will never understand it unless you've personally suffered from addiction yourself.

Do you think the attendees at Alcoholic Anonymous who stand up and say "I'm an alcoholic and haven't had a drink in 25 years" are being absurd, or speaking to a truth about addiction? Why do you think smokers have an easier time of it?

I've not smoked in almost 6 years today. In a poor context, in a poor moment, I could be back in there in a heartbeat.

It's not insufferable - I've suffered it - but you clearly and blatantly will never understand it.

So please, get off the high horse, accept everybody makes poor choices in life, some of those can lead to a very tough addiction, and addiction can lead to poor health outcomes that are incredibly hard to resolve despite wanting to make changes for the better. A little more empathy could serve you well.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#422

Post by joncrocks »

mathieuh wrote: post #361
gambiting wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual snus(powdered tabbaco sold and advertised as a product you put up your nose) isn't legal for sale in the UK: https://www.buynicotinepouches.co.uk/blogs/news/buying-snus-...

How is snus different from snuff? Cursory google seems to suggest you can buy snuff in the UK, which is also powdered tobacco that you put up your nose

Snus comes in pouches (like a teabag?), intended to be placed between your gum + inside of your lip AFAIK.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#423

Post by zikduruqe »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

One of my first "real" jobs in the world, I was a bag boy at a grocery store. At the end of the night my job was to empty the ash trays that were at the end of every aisle, and to pick up the cigarette butts that people would put out on the floor. In the grocery store.

I also used to go to our local state fair as a pre-teen, and they would hand out free samples of Marlboro, Winston, Skoal and Copenhagen products to us. We were probably only 10 years old. They would give kids tobacco products.

We also smoked at school and the teachers would bum smokes off of us, and likewise we'd bum smokes off the teachers.

Crazy times.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#424

Post by swores »

mathieuh wrote: post #369
gambiting wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, frankly I'm not sure. Quick Google reveals a few differences but I'm not sure why one is banned while the other one isn't.

Snuff is probably culturally significant. Despite never knowing anyone who takes snuff you still read about snuff and snuff boxes. In fact I seem to recall that some people still call the webbing between your thumb and index finger the "snuff box" because that's where people would put the snuff before insufflating it.

I would imagine snuff boxes / accessories now days are bought more by people who snort illegal drugs than tobacco and the name remains as a PR thing (shops, even head shops with weed art in the window, don't want to advertise things like "cocaine snorter"). But I've no idea how many people still exist that use actual snuff.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#425

Post by PaulRobinson »

wincy wrote: post #261
PaulRobinson wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or pleases you every time you do it. Like, playing a game, or reading a book, or eating your favourite food. Now imagine someone telling you that you don't have to do that, it's just a choice. Imagine being deprived of it and being guilt-tripped into it. Sure you…

Curious, did you start smoking in your teens? I smoked hookah every day for about a year when I was 25 because I vastly preferred it to going out to bars and it seemed to be an acceptable social alternative. Then I quit. I never crave cigarettes, unless I walk by a group of smokers then I might bum one. I’ve probably smoked 5 cigarettes in the last few years. When I vaped for a little while like five years ago to see…

I started when I was 18. Drunk, social pressure, became hooked immediately. Took me 5 years to give up the second time. After 3 years social pressure led to me taking it up again for 12 years. I've now been a non-smoker for just under 6 years. It's still hard.

I think any addiction is hard to walk away from once it's had you for a while, it's why addiction support groups exist. Alcohol, gambling and drugs can cause real chaos in the very short term whereas smoking can take years to cause serious damage, so people reduce it in terms of impact, but it's no different to any other form of addiction in terms of its difficulty to get away from.

So when people act flippantly towards it, I realise they've had the good fortune of never having to deal with addiction in their lives. Good for them, but I really wish people had an ounce of common human empathy in them when talking about this. It's tough, and they clearly don't understand that.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#426

Post by defrost »

TheCowboy wrote: post #384
defrost wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no such thing as second-hand-sugar But there absolutely is such a thing as a "food desert" an urban area in which it is difficult to buy affordable or good-quality fresh food. particularly within the USofA, places where lack of finnacial resources across communities, lack of affordable public transport, and lack of shopping options essentially doom large groups of people to low grade high sugar foods. Good…

I still see this idea brought up but it feels like the tide has turned against the idea of "food deserts" with a lot of studies undermining it, and worth looking into if you're interested.

The raw data still appears to suport the notion:

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-environment-atla...

and the various initiatives started to address the issue haven't yet had time to make significant changes in enough of the areas worst off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/29/us-food-...

It's a good start, with a way to go:

> On Sept. 28, the White House is hosted a conference on hunger, nutrition and health — the second conference of its kind in five decades — and introduced a 40-page national strategy as a roadmap toward the goal of ending hunger and increasing healthy eating by 2030.

https://journalistsresource.org/home/food-insecurity-health/

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#428

Post by moffkalast »

thorvaldsson wrote: post #303
lelanthran wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates. Which countries are those? I ask because it would be nice to compare the incidence of the top smoking-related diseases between the countries.

I believe around 20% of respondents in the Netherlands said they smoked in 2020. For the same period, Iceland though was close to the US, with a reported rate of 12% of respondents saying they smoked.

> said they smoked

"Smoked cigarettes right? :D"

Netherlands: stares in Dutch

"Smoked cigarettes right? :o"

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#429

Post by hutzlibu »

camillomiller wrote: post #88
Stratoscope wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

"How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?"

Quite some smokers still think, it is not bad for them, so it can't be bad for others, so why care? I mean, if it would be really unhealthy, they wouldn't do it to themself. Cognitive dissonance is real.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#430

Post by bambax »

mkl wrote: post #400
bambax wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think an accident ever occurred because of smoking in the cabin? (Possibly one because of smoking in the lavatory, and I'm not even sure). For smokers, going 4, 6 or 9 hours without smoking is just unthinkable; I know it was for me. So glad I quit (a very long time ago), but I don't know how smokers deal with it today.

Do nicotine patches, gum, etc. not work? (Serious question)

I never tried those but it seems they kind of work, yes? But some people seem to dislike them a lot.
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