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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#381

Post by kashunstva »

csomar wrote: post #200
jacobsenscott wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The navy didn't ban smoking on subs until 2010. That must have been something.

But subs get deployed for 6 months at a time. Unless they banned smokers from getting into subs??

Others have designated smoking as a medical condition owing to its physiological addictive qualities. Taking that stance I would just note that the United States Navy bans from operating certain equipment all sorts of people with medical conditions. For example the USN wouldn’t let me, with my 20/400 vision uncorrected anywhere near an F-35C. So I can see banning active smokers from submarines.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#382

Post by doublesocket »

Stratoscope wrote: post #43
j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

> Smoking or non?

For places without actually separated rooms, I remember this being described as having a pissing area in a swimming pool.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#383

Post by seszett »

noduerme wrote: post #376
seszett wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smokers do, actually, ask in most cases. I take it you didn't live through the era of unrestricted tobacco smoking then. Smokers absolutely do not ask whether they can smoke unless they know they really shouldn't, but hope they'll be allowed to anyway. Aside from that, it is obviously ridiculous to compare disease (which is rarely something one gets willingly, and cannot be stopped at will) with smoking (a wilful d…

I'm sorry that you may have encountered smokers who didn't ask your permission. But I have never encountered a parent who asked my permission before their child coughed in my face. I'm comparing the thoughtless spreading of diseases with the, relatively, under the circumstances, thoughtful manner in which most smokers exhale their poison. And, relative to the immediate toxicity of the poisons in question, there's no…

How far removed from real life must you be to complain that parents aren't asking you for permission before... allowing their children to be sick? Allowing their sick children to cough?

Disease is an unavoidable fact of human life and children are a necessary piece of society, but tobacco is entirely unneeded.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#384

Post by TheCowboy »

defrost wrote: post #224
bruce511 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You disregard diabetes rather lightly there. Diabetes can result in amputations, blindness, heart attacks, strokes and other fun things. Sure there are other food choices that lead to obesity, but sugar is certainly high on the list. One thing in common though is that telling a smoker to "just quit" is about the same as telling someone who likes sugar to "just stop". Personally I'm working to "reduce my intake", slow…

> there's no such thing as second-hand-sugar But there absolutely is such a thing as a "food desert" an urban area in which it is difficult to buy affordable or good-quality fresh food. particularly within the USofA, places where lack of finnacial resources across communities, lack of affordable public transport, and lack of shopping options essentially doom large groups of people to low grade high sugar foods. Good…

I still see this idea brought up but it feels like the tide has turned against the idea of "food deserts" with a lot of studies undermining it, and worth looking into if you're interested.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#385

Post by alexvoda »

noduerme wrote: post #318
forgetfreeman wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misspelled "can't be bothered to contribute to the wellbeing of the people around us". Incidentally, you think wearing a rated mask for a couple hours qualifies as "suffering"? When did notionally adult humans get this soft? Try working 10 hours straight in a tyvek bunny suit and full face respiratory PPE. We'd be carting you off my jobsite in a wheelbarrow after 30 minutes.

So, I also think politesse is really a critical skill and function in society. I've never smoked in close proximity to anyone without asking them if they minded if I lit up first. I also have never coughed on an airplane. Never. Not once. I've flown upwards of 200,000 miles in my life. I don't understand this urge people have to spread their germs as soon as they get seated and buckled in. I know the air is dry; cont…

Agree, but with one amendment.

Coughing is not necessarily the problem. You can cough without having a respiratory disease, and respiratory disease can transmit without coughing.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#386

Post by tsimionescu »

chrisco255 wrote: post #347
tsimionescu wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a basic courtesy to wear a mask if you know you have a respiratory issue (whether it's a cold, the flu, or Covid doesn't really matter). Masks work much much better when the sick person is wearing them. I think it should also be something that cabin attendants can force you to do - if they notice you have cold/flu/Covid symptoms, and you are not wearing a mask, they should be allowed to bring a mask to you and a…

No, it's a basic courtesy to stay home if you are sick. Airborne diseases cannot be prevented by mask wearing between sips of your courtesy peanuts and soda. And plenty is lost about a society that focuses more about preventing illness than just staying generally healthy. Smiling is good for you, engaging with your fellow humans, with full facial expressions available for communication and connection, are absolutely…

So you expect people who have planned an expensive vacation and booked a flight to cancel everything if they get the sniffles? Should they also self-isolate and avoid grocery shopping, all public transport etc for 5-10 days after their first sore throat? And note, I'm saying this as someone who has just renounced a week-long vacation and two non-refundable flights because I tested positive for Covid, even though I barely had any symptoms, because I do believe the risk to others is too great. Not so for a cold.

While masks are far from 100% efficiency, they are still much much much better than doing nothing, while self-isolation for minor illnesses like a common cold is not in any way realistic.

Also, I'm explicitly not saying that we should always wear masks - the dangers of un-treatable, un-vaccinatable Covid (that 100% justified universal mask wearing) have passed. But, when you're sick and for various reasons have to be in closed spaces with others, wear a mask.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#387

Post by omnibrain »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #104
DaveExeter wrote: post #2

McDonalds used to have ashtrays in the dining area!

They had glass ones at one time. Later, they had those semi-disposable ones made out of pressed heavy-gauge aluminum foil. You can still buy them on eBay.

They were right next to the station with the napkins and the straws. An artist friend used to steal stacks of them because he used them to mix paint on them.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#388

Post by Akronymus »

pigsty wrote: post #255
PaulRobinson wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or pleases you every time you do it. Like, playing a game, or reading a book, or eating your favourite food. Now imagine someone telling you that you don't have to do that, it's just a choice. Imagine being deprived of it and being guilt-tripped into it. Sure you…

I mean, unless as a child you had abusive parents who forced you to smoke, it’s absolutely a choice. There are people who can’t stop doing stupid stuff for attention (like breaking electronics for YouTube views or whatever), and we don’t blame “idiots” commenting online for their habits. There are people who refuse to eat vegetables and only eat junk food and we also don’t blame “idiots.” Yes. It’s addictive. But per…

> Yes. It’s addictive. But personal responsibility is admitting you made bad choices that led to bad habits and only you, through your own effort, can fix it.

We don't trust kids with making contracts/permanent choices for good reasons. And it is easy to get roped into smoking to fit in as a kid. So, I disagree on it being a choice in all situations.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#389

Post by [deleted] »

noduerme wrote: post #274
hourago wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I lit a cigarette as I'd like to, their parents might attack me for shaving a few theoretical seconds off their lives. Many things are not harmful if just done one, but you are not alone. I understand that if you are allowed to smoke many other people would also, and it would have a noticeable detriment in peoples live quality.

If everyone is allowed to take their coughing children on airplanes, it's a detriment to my life quality. What's the difference? Why are ten coughing children without masks less lethal than ten adults smoking cigarettes?

[deleted]

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#390

Post by rprospero »

cookrn wrote: post #129
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, smoking was everywhere. I remember flying when you could smoke. But the main thing is the smell of stale cigarette smoke was just like this undercurrent of any public place you went. Everyone's car. Churches. Everywhere it was that smell. Also at least where I was in KS, store clerks didn't give a crap. We could buy smokes in middle school if we wanted. Thankfully I never did more than a brief fascination with…

People would smoke in church? During the service?

I remember this as an old joke:

It's sinful to smoke while you're praying, but it's virtuous to pray while you're smoking.

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