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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#371

Post by liamYC »

noduerme wrote: post #326
freddie_mercury wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, the air on the plane was quite a bit cleaner when there were ashtrays next to the seats. That doesn't follow from what you wrote. Anyway, it is easy to look at actual research on cabin air quality and see your claim is false. "Typical levels of SHS-RSP on aircraft violated current (PM(2.5)) federal air quality standards approximately threefold for flight attendants, and exceeded SHS irritation thres…

The decrease in particles with the smoking ban doesn't prove or disprove what I'm asserting, which is that (a) bleed air into the cabin was reduced and (b) filters were replaced less often, after the tobacco ban. In fact, what I'm saying is that the airlines leveraged the tobacco ban and commensurate reduction in measurable PM(2.5) as a legal excuse to reduce filtration of air five-fold, resulting in much higher leve…

As a non smoker, I’d much rather breathe on a plane today than potentially next to someone smoking.

How do you know if the reduction in filters / bleed air causes more people to get sick? Filters would naturally require less replacement since they don’t have to take away as many toxins. Couldn’t that allow filters to free up more viral particles?

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#372

Post by Karrot_Kream »

noduerme wrote: post #240

Smoking is divine. Eh, sorry, I mean Cigarettes are Sublime https://www.dukeupress.edu/cigarettes-are-sublime Ashtrays may go along into the dark arts of secret knowledge, along with hooking up a modem, coding your own BBS, repairing your own leather boots, starting a fire to cook dinner over, etc. But something human, something tactile, something that carries with it dangers and pleasures and the competence to deter…

The nicotine high is a very pleasant headspace. I only smoked occasionally in college and grad school for a few years and off-and-on afterword socially for a few more years but I miss the scintillating conversations and the headspace nicotine put you in. More pronounced than caffeine but not so stimulating as a stronger stimulant. Some of my most interesting conversations happened over a cigarette.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#373

Post by nly »

chrisco255 wrote: post #347
tsimionescu wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a basic courtesy to wear a mask if you know you have a respiratory issue (whether it's a cold, the flu, or Covid doesn't really matter). Masks work much much better when the sick person is wearing them. I think it should also be something that cabin attendants can force you to do - if they notice you have cold/flu/Covid symptoms, and you are not wearing a mask, they should be allowed to bring a mask to you and a…

No, it's a basic courtesy to stay home if you are sick. Airborne diseases cannot be prevented by mask wearing between sips of your courtesy peanuts and soda. And plenty is lost about a society that focuses more about preventing illness than just staying generally healthy. Smiling is good for you, engaging with your fellow humans, with full facial expressions available for communication and connection, are absolutely…

Courtesy peanuts are another thing from a bygone era, decades ago...

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#374

Post by noduerme »

chrisco255 wrote: post #355
noduerme wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! And if you can have covid and not put on a mask, why the fuck can't I smoke next to you on a plane?

Because regulating microscopic airborne diseases is impossible and beyond dumb. Every country that tried to do so failed to do so, even with the most Draconian laws imaginable.

Sure. But how is that any different from regulating the burning of leaves?

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#375

Post by greatartiste »

Back in the late 80s I had a job servicing the 2 way radios used by bus drivers. Then you could smoke of buses & it caused a lot of problems not just for the passengers but for the electronics getting into volume controls , channel selector switches and that sort of thing. You would open up a radio and inside the contents had turned a yellowy brown colour , often it was impossible to make out the original colours of the wires. The trick was to put the entire radio circuit into a bath of luke warm water with washing up liquid. After 10 mins or so the nicotine residue would float up and form a yellow scum layer on top of the water. Quite disgusting.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#376

Post by noduerme »

seszett wrote: post #354
noduerme wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children light up at every opportunity. If you've ever been in a row with a few of them, they have no control over the contents of their lungs. Smokers do, actually, ask in most cases. In terms ten second-hand cigarettes damaging you on a flight, or ten coughing children, I don't understand how you think the smoke would be more dangerous. Cancer risk from smoke is cumulative, whereas risk from contagious diseases is…

> Smokers do, actually, ask in most cases. I take it you didn't live through the era of unrestricted tobacco smoking then. Smokers absolutely do not ask whether they can smoke unless they know they really shouldn't, but hope they'll be allowed to anyway. Aside from that, it is obviously ridiculous to compare disease (which is rarely something one gets willingly, and cannot be stopped at will) with smoking (a wilful d…

I'm sorry that you may have encountered smokers who didn't ask your permission. But I have never encountered a parent who asked my permission before their child coughed in my face. I'm comparing the thoughtless spreading of diseases with the, relatively, under the circumstances, thoughtful manner in which most smokers exhale their poison. And, relative to the immediate toxicity of the poisons in question, there's no doubt that the parents of children should be asking permission.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#377

Post by chaosbolt »

nelblu wrote: post #367

I am so glad smoking is prohibited in public places. I can't stand it all, and my wife is allergic to it. Next I would love to see more restrictions on driving loud noised cars and bikes, every time I see a Harley owner ride by with a loud noise or a truck owner drive by, I can't feel anything but contempt for such lowlife humans who have no regards for other people's and animals' sensitivities.

>I can't feel anything but contempt for such lowlife humans

Sounds to me like you could use some therapy, it's not good to have this much hatred inside.

It's ok if someone does something that bothers you, some noise or some smoke won't kill you, it's just perspective, objectively it doesn't hurt you in any way, but the reason it does is because you have these strong beliefs against it, so you basically choose to be hurt.

I travelled for hours next to a crying baby and didn't let myself complain about it, why would I? the mom knows he's bothering others, but what can she do about it? leave her baby behind or not travel? What if it's something important? have some sympathy for people some day you might be in their place.

Also your wife isn't allergic to smoke, cigarette smoke isn't an allergen.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#378

Post by ragazzina »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

> The plummeting rates of smoking in the US

Do you consider vaping in this statistics? I can't find a definite answer.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#379

Post by nkrisc »

noduerme wrote: post #245
camillomiller wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

[flagged]

Those kids are going to be coughing on you regardless of whether smoking is allowed or not.

If you were allowed to smoke on the plane then I should also be allowed to bring aboard my bucket of rotten fish.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#380

Post by scrollaway »

noduerme wrote: post #370
scrollaway wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Where did you even hear about this specific number in how often they used to change their filters vs now? Do you have any idea what the reasons are for them changing filters, how they decide? What the minimum is? How they measure it? You seem to not really even understand how air filtration works.

If one day people aren't allowed to smoke, does the volume of air passing through the filter drop by 80%? Do all the other particulates, e.g. viruses and bacteria, drop by 80%? No? So what makes you think the filter needs to be changed 1/5th as often?

I'm guessing you've been smoking so long, you don't know what it's like to not live in polluted air. When you change an air filter, repaint a house, wash the inside of a car, you can immediately tell whether somebody is a smoker. It's fucking gross, and I suspect that it's not 1/5th, but probably 1/20th as often. "What makes me think that" is plain simple experience.

I don't have the full paper handy (and can't be bothered to look this up just for you) but the highlights should be enough for you on this one:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...

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