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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#181

Post by lelanthran »

brazed_blotch wrote: post #14
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

On the other hand, being constantly ostracised from public spaces isn’t great either… something I find infuriating when I travel abroad. If there were at least a few smoking bars where you don’t have to go out into the cold to smoke I think that would be nice.

> On the other hand, being constantly ostracised from public spaces isn’t great either… something I find infuriating when I travel abroad. If there were at least a few smoking bars where you don’t have to go out into the cold to smoke I think that would be nice.

I'm a smoker, and I absolutely don't want smoking allowed in public indoor places, and some outdoor public places as well. I don't smoke indoors even in my own home.

On the other hand, when I duck down an empty alley and light up, I'm going to be annoyed if someone walking on the main road comes in to complain about how my second-hand smoke is going to give them cancer.

Too many times I have had people go out of their way to inhale my second hand smoke, and then complain about it.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#182

Post by kens »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #157
gumby wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember professors smoking in class or office hours? The student smoking area in high school?

By the mid-80s, kids generally couldn’t smoke in school in the US. Each school district or town or state had their own rules, though. I was told by kids a few years older than me that my high school allowed seniors to smoke in the early 80s. The 70s I think there were even fewer restrictions on the kids, but there were designated areas. You didn’t smoke in class. But it changed mid-80s for students. There’s a famous…

It's way older than that. "Smokin' in the Boys Room" is originally by Brownsville Station, 1973.

Random ashtray history: the massive SAGE computer system (1958), built for air defense, had ashtrays and cigarette lighters physically built into the computer consoles.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#183

Post by gymbeaux »

brightlancer wrote: post #46

> Everyone had hard-smoking relatives who looked like absolute hell by their late 30s, were coughing up a lung in their 40s, and by their 50s were being hoisted by pallbearers. Smoking is a disgusting habit and I love working from home because I never have to step in an elevator with folks fresh from a smoke break, but it isn't nearly that fatal. I grew up when smoking was literally everywhere and the "hard-smoking"…

But there are plenty of documented cases where heavy smoking for around 30 years = cancer.

I have to wonder if cigarettes of the 50s are different from the cigarettes of today. Perhaps, for example, some additive(s) not present in the 50s cigs are causing cancer in today’s cigs.

Also, “hard-smoking” is subjective. Are the heavy smokers of today smoking more than the heavy smokers of the 50s?

Speaking anecdotally, all four of my grandparents smoked, all four died north of age 70, and all four died in very unpleasant, smoking-related ways (essentially suffocation, all four- COVID, COPD, pneumonia, and I’m not sure about the fourth). So I guess my final point is: is it really a “win” if smokers “usually” make it to old age?

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#184

Post by MisterBastahrd »

brightlancer wrote: post #46

> Everyone had hard-smoking relatives who looked like absolute hell by their late 30s, were coughing up a lung in their 40s, and by their 50s were being hoisted by pallbearers. Smoking is a disgusting habit and I love working from home because I never have to step in an elevator with folks fresh from a smoke break, but it isn't nearly that fatal. I grew up when smoking was literally everywhere and the "hard-smoking"…

Yeah... I didn't. My grandfather smoked until his 70s before quitting and my great grandfather was still smoking a couple of Keep Moving cigars a day until he died in his mid 80s. All of my aunts and uncles on my mom's side are in their 60s and 70s and still smoke. Hell, nothing brings me back to my childhood like the whiff of a freshly lit cigarette. I still remember being a very young boy back in the 70s and smelling the cigarette smoke at night in the rain at my great grandfather's fishing camp at Grand Isle, Louisiana as the adults played cards and listened to the radio.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#185

Post by lelanthran »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

> Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

Which countries are those? I ask because it would be nice to compare the incidence of the top smoking-related diseases between the countries.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#186

Post by jmspring »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

I recall those days. I also recall hanging my head out the side of the car when riding with my grandmother to avoid smelling the smoke.

I couldn’t imagine what planes would be like these days with smoking/non.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#187

Post by encoderer »

troupe wrote: post #112

It is interesting that planes are all still made with ashtrays in the bathrooms. I believe the reasoning is something like: "You are not allowed to smoke, but if you do smoke, we don't want you starting a trash fire."

Yes, exactly right, because just that very thing happened in the 1970s and 100+ people lost their lives. They are mandatory equipment.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#188

Post by dredmorbius »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #146
bigDinosaur wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial aviation in the 60's was quite safe. Of course there were plenty of issues but the truly dangerous era was the preceding decades. The 747 dates from the very late 60's for example and that's an extremely safe plane. Conversely the 50's was a much scarier decade as commercial jet engines were in a fairly experimental decade.

I believe in the 50s, commercial flights were propeller planes.

The first commercial jet airliner, the de Havilland Comet, debuted in 1952, though it was retired shortly after due to mulltiple airframe losses due to structural fatigue.

The Boeing 707 entered service in 1957, and is probably most associated with the start of the jet age.

Most commercial flights were likely propeller-driven aircraft through the 1950s, but some jet travel had begun by the end of the decade.

Edit: I've spent some time trying to find stats on flights / passenger miles by aircraft type for the 1950s & 1960s without luck. That'd be an interesting add to this thread if anyone has the information.

I do find total passenger and freight data here: https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter5/air-transpo...>

As of 1960, both categories were effectively nil. Passenger travel hit 1,000 billion passenger-km around 1980, the pre-2020 peak was about 8,500 billion passenger-km. Data based on IATA.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#189

Post by bombolo »

sen wrote: post #178
jhoechtl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems you never were on a smoking flight. Planes have excellent air conditions. It was not like the whole plane up in smoke. You could smell it a little on a non smoking seat but it was quite mild.

Hard disagree. I flew lots in the 80s and you could be halfway back in the non-smoking section and still smell it constantly. They had curtains separating the smoking/non-smoking sections but so many people went back/forth that their body movement would “drag” the smoke back down the aisle with them as they walked. Then on top of that the smokers going back to the bathroom would make sure they’d taken a huge puff bef…

Smoker's people sense of smell is severely compromised. They have no clue how strong the smell is.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#190

Post by kylehotchkiss »

troupe wrote: post #112

It is interesting that planes are all still made with ashtrays in the bathrooms. I believe the reasoning is something like: "You are not allowed to smoke, but if you do smoke, we don't want you starting a trash fire."

Also helps ID the smoker for a meeting with the authorities when they land
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