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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

clivethompson.medium.com

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#41

Post by cycomanic »

colechristensen wrote: post #25
TheRealPomax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could…

That is missing the point of letting people make their own choices.

Before we let people make choices about smoking, I'd rather let them do heroin or cocaine. At least that does not force me to inhale their smoke. But as a more general answer, we (as society) always make trade-offs with letting people make their own choices, and forbidding behavior for the better of society. The boundaries will always be somewhat arbitrary.

That said, the economic costs of smoking to society is significant and there are some corporations that essentially make a killing on it (don't get me started on the anti-science propaganda that they funded. If people want to smoke tobacco in their own home, sure let them grow their own, so at least there is not a corporation who tries to peddle smoking to children in order to improve their profits.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#42

Post by 13of40 »

gumby wrote: post #18
j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Do you remember professors smoking in class or office hours? The student smoking area in high school?

I was a little late to the game, but in the mid-80s my parents took us to a screening of 2001 a Space Odyssey at the local university, and although they weren't in use by then, all of the desks in the lecture hall had ashtrays build into their armrests.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#43

Post by Stratoscope »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Smoking or non?

Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere!

Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups.

https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch

One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand names just like the grown-up cigarettes, or a close facsimile:

https://thedieline.com/blog/2019/10/28/the-history-of-the-ca...

"Hey dad, can I bum a smoke?"

I remember the first time I took an airline flight after they introduced a non-smoking section at the back of the plane. I got seated in the front row of non-smoking, right behind the last row of smoking.

As soon as the no smoking light went off, everyone in the row ahead of me lit up!

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#44

Post by ch4s3 »

dmm wrote: post #34
TheRealPomax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could…

There are a lot of people who insist that prohibition never works. I wonder if this is successful it will change their minds.

I think there’s some nuance here. You can’t totally prohibit something people really want to do, but you can pretty effectively prohibit something almost no one wants to do or where there is a very good substitute.

Having a tiny landmass, and no land borders also helps. It’s possible to grown tobacco hydroponically but I’m not sure if anyone would bother unless there was an overnight hard ban.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#45

Post by OkayPhysicist »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

I went to Vegas a couple months ago, and one thing that absolutely blew me away was the fact that, just within the last ~5 odd years since I last visited even the casinos stopped reeking of tobacco. I figured it was a confluence of factors: people smoke less now, people are far more likely to vape than smoke (which, for its ills, definitely doesn't leave a lingering stench like cigarettes), and there was a lot of talk about improved ventilation in response to the pandemic.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#46

Post by brightlancer »

> Everyone had hard-smoking relatives who looked like absolute hell by their late 30s, were coughing up a lung in their 40s, and by their 50s were being hoisted by pallbearers.

Smoking is a disgusting habit and I love working from home because I never have to step in an elevator with folks fresh from a smoke break, but it isn't nearly that fatal.

I grew up when smoking was literally everywhere and the "hard-smoking" folks overwhelmingly survived to their 60s and most to their 70s or later. A 55 year old smoking death was rare.

Exaggeration destroys trust.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#47

Post by mc32 »

Tobacco smoking has pretty much disappeared —unfortunately some people believe smoke from marijuana is less dangerous to lungs and don’t affect other aspects of cognition… so it has an non disapproving audience.

That said… while ashtrays have disappeared, the electric cigarette lighter lives on in most cars if only as a way to get juice out of the car to run appliances of off.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#48

Post by ch4s3 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

Yeah it’s really quite something. I end up having to increase my dosage on asthma meds for a week or two every time I go to Europe. Some of the cooler places to go are sadly a bit smokier than I like.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#49

Post by serf »

pixl97 wrote: post #27
colechristensen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is missing the point of letting people make their own choices.

I'm glad I got that choice of breathing my dads secondhand smoke growing up! Um...

he made that choice for you. children have choices made for them in droves.

children rarely have the ability -- or are given the opportunity -- to make choices for themselves.

Not a lot of infants going around asking for circumcisions and ear-piercings, but...

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#50

Post by dylan604 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

If only BigSugar could have a day in court like BigTobacco. Sugar addiction is the next big social health care type of thing I'd like to see recognized. Yes, opiates are bad right now, but I don't think anyone would have ever denied it out side of the people making/selling. Great majority people do not even recognize sugar as a problem.
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