Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools • Hacker News Board

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#191

Post by jackson1442 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

jterrys wrote: post #104

jackson1442 wrote: post #2

One of the requirements for book approval: > Appropriate for the grade level and age group for which the materials are used or made available If I was in grade school when this happened, this would have hampered my ability to learn. I was generally reading above the standard level and loved reading in class. Reading this post just makes me sad. Kids aren't getting the same opportunities I got to nurture my curiosity.

I 100% guarantee you that this has nothing to do with smart kids like you being unable to read big brain books but rather intentionally vague and loose language being used to curtail what the school administration and parents consider morally objectionable material.

Unfortunately the linked article includes a screenshot of a parent stating that teachers have barred students from bringing their own books/eReaders out of fear for liability.

That's the problem with policy that makes failure at a job function a crime. People will be overly cautious because they don't want to be charged with a felony.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#192

Post by zeroonetwothree » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

cratermoon wrote: post #137

This is a real example of censorship in violation of the first amendment.

It doesn’t violate the 1st amendment because government is allowed to censor their own speech.

But certainly it is censorship.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#193

Post by crooked-v » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #147

CydeWeys wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing very much isn't happening, though. These books indeed were merely "present in school" on a book shelf. Nobody's being indoctrinated into practical terrorism in Florida schools by being forced to read the Anarchist's Cookbook or anything like that.

If the books in the school library just appear there with no influence by the school staff in charge of the libraries then I guess we can just fire the library staff. Then there's no one there to risk a felony. I didn't realize it was completely non-curated and unmanaged in Florida.

Teachers regularly have their own collections of books in classrooms, separate from those held by the school library.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#194

Post by speeder » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #121

giraffe_lady wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progressives are not responsible for the actions their opponents choose to take, or the justifications they use when taking them.

Yeah, I thought the GOP was all about freedom?

People forget there are more than one kind of freedom.

Example: I believe states should be small, physically, so their laws are relevant locally. But since several megacountries do exist, I prefer those countries to have "freedom" in the sense where locals can do whatever laws are relevant to them, even if those local laws include censorship or other nonfree things.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#195

Post by speakfreely » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

zacharytelschow wrote: post #142

mabbo wrote: post #3

Hey America, is everything okay down there? Y'all have some truly dystopian stuff going on there. Felony prosecution for showing kids books that the Governor didn't approve of? Yikes.

Can I correctly surmise that you're Canadian? If so, your leader declared a national emergency to squash free speech, banished handguns so you can no longer protect yourself, and cut off political opponents from the financial system. Trying to control the books children can view in an educational environment seems trivial by comparison.

Not that Canadian authoritarianism makes this FL issue any less ridiculous, but since you brought it up, I am kind of amazed that no one in a "modern democracy" (what I thought Canada was aiming for) had any problem with the alarming weaponization of the financial system against anyone who even donated to the trucker protests. In my mind, it was somewhat equivalent to a Republican-controlled US government freezing the bank accounts of anyone who donated to Planned Parenthood and then was protesting the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v Wade. It was an alarming abandonment by Trudeau's government of the principles that I would've assumed they were trying to uphold.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#196

Post by cratermoon » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #140

matmc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Here’s the same story and same examples from NBC if it helps. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-racist-florida-release...

There's nothing called "CRT" being taught to grade school kids. Teaching math using statistical examples from the Implicit Association Test is problematic how?

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#197

Post by mfer » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

schulboy wrote: post #161

mfer wrote: post #115

Context as to what's happening in US schools... This highlights part of the growing movement and disagreement around culture shaping through kids. To highlight this, if you take a look at school of educations mission statement[1] > Through commitment to innovation, social justice, excellence in teaching and research, and partnerships, the School of Teacher Education will position itself as a national leader in shapin…

“Back in my day…” there was a crusade against Christian prayer and what not. Keep things neutral - to the point that teachers who were otherwise obviously religious would completely dodge the topic when my intellectually curious atheist self asked on topics. Now we’re back at teachers here-and-they’re wanting to assert their belief system in the classroom and activist parents seeking to eliminate this issue… only the…

> So, the question becomes should we keep schools neutral or not?

What is the role of school? Is the role to prep kids to go to college? Is it to drive social change? Is it to teach what kids need to perform common jobs? Is it to teach kids how to have skills to operate as adults (like managing their personal finances)?

These are questions we don't agree on as a culture.

A bunch of debate is rooted in disagreement as to what these should be.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#198

Post by notfromhere » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

havblue wrote: post #108

mabbo wrote: post #3

Hey America, is everything okay down there? Y'all have some truly dystopian stuff going on there. Felony prosecution for showing kids books that the Governor didn't approve of? Yikes.

A lot of people are under the impression that public schools are a disaster in this country unless you're in a high performing school district. Either buy an expensive house or try to make enough money to send your kids to private school. So, no, public schools are not okay here, regardless of your view on this law.

Kind of what happens when your school funding is based on local tax revenues

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#199

Post by spacemadness » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #144

CydeWeys wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not in Florida but I'll give you a local example to me that's come under debate. A book with sexually explicit material was recently pulled from an elementary school. What book was it? I ask because the first real science fiction book that I ever read, that inspired a life-long love for the genre, and which I read under the age of ten, was Rendezvous With Rama, which did contain a sex scene. And the presence of…

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the book. It was one I was not familiar with. The discussion noted that the book discussed using "toys". They also noted that there was an add for buying sex toys as part of the book. These are elements that really caught my attention. I have a hard time seeing most parents in the US being ok with this material being put in front of kids who are 5-10 years old.

“I don’t really recall but it was some terrible thing like giving sex toys to kids but I don’t remember really. I can definitely see why they’re doing this though!”

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#200

Post by notch656c » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #193

notch656c wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the books in the school library just appear there with no influence by the school staff in charge of the libraries then I guess we can just fire the library staff. Then there's no one there to risk a felony. I didn't realize it was completely non-curated and unmanaged in Florida.

Teachers regularly have their own collections of books in classrooms, separate from those held by the school library.

Are they completely non-curated? Kids just put whatever book they want there? If so I'd say the teacher isn't liable for what happens. If the teachers put the books or manages which books are there they are curated and that activity can be managed by the people paying the teacher, ie the taxpayers/representatives.