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Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

theatlanticwire.com

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Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#41

Post by philwelch »

zasz wrote: post #31
maratd wrote: post #22

One of the hallmark properties of a market economy is that you have choice. You don't like your compensation? You quit. The truth is that everyone at the factory is there because they want to be. Because it beats being back on the farm. But still, Foxconn created the problem. When Western media freaked out over the suicides, Foxconn got scared. They started making their employees sign non-suicide agreements. What? Th…

Okay, let me see if I got this straight. Foxconn workers are picking between two shitty jobs. Job A is worse than Job B. Job A is so bad that they are threatening to commit suicide. What kind of choice is this?

Genuinely suicidal people don't threaten to commit suicide, they just do it. These people tipped their hand by coming off the roof without Foxconn conceding to their demands. If idle threats to commit suicide are a surefire indication that someone's being mistreated, then millions of teenage ex-boyfriends and ex-girlfriends are mistreated, too.

Threatening to jump off a building shows even less conviction than a genuine hunger strike (which will kill you more effectively than picketing on a rooftop making idle threats). IRA terrorists have engaged in hunger strikes to get released from prison--does that mean it's abusive to imprison terrorists?

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#42

Post by MartinCron »

Karunamon wrote: post #30
Homunculiheaded wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this may be a reference to the recent episode of This American Life on the topic [0]. On that program they use this issue as a light introduction to the main theme, just a curious feature of Siri that when you dive deeper leads to an interesting story. [0] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/m...

What I was expressing such shock at was the way they phrased it. If you look at the image to the right of the offending sentence, it's a Siri screenshot with Siri, where were you made? Siri: That's classified. I don't think this is Apple "programming siri to avert uncomfortable questions" as much as another joking response to a nonsense question along the lines of "Open the pod bay doors" or "What is the meaning of l…

Siri was able to answer the "where were you designed?" question with "Designed by Apple in California", so it may or may not be just joking response to a nonsense question.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#43

Post by pjkundert »

louislouis wrote: post #36
zasz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, let me see if I got this straight. Foxconn workers are picking between two shitty jobs. Job A is worse than Job B. Job A is so bad that they are threatening to commit suicide. What kind of choice is this?

It's called the choice of capitalism for the poor. Basically get exploited or don't eat.

Let me get this straight: you are using one of the most ruthless [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade] command economies in the world as an example of the ills of Capitalism?

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#44

Post by yummyfajitas »

zasz wrote: post #31
maratd wrote: post #22

One of the hallmark properties of a market economy is that you have choice. You don't like your compensation? You quit. The truth is that everyone at the factory is there because they want to be. Because it beats being back on the farm. But still, Foxconn created the problem. When Western media freaked out over the suicides, Foxconn got scared. They started making their employees sign non-suicide agreements. What? Th…

Okay, let me see if I got this straight. Foxconn workers are picking between two shitty jobs. Job A is worse than Job B. Job A is so bad that they are threatening to commit suicide. What kind of choice is this?

It's one option more than they would have without Foxconn.

If these workers were subsistence farmers back in rural China, with earnings This is why prosperity often results in unrest.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#45

Post by MartinCron »

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #20
Karunamon wrote: post #18

FTA: (apple) so obsessed it even programmed Siri to avert uncomfortable questions about its origins ... freakin' really??? And I suppose that when I ask Siri in jest to open the pod bay doors, I should be worried that my phone is plotting my demise based on the response?

I think this may be a reference to the recent episode of This American Life on the topic [0]. On that program they use this issue as a light introduction to the main theme, just a curious feature of Siri that when you dive deeper leads to an interesting story. [0] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/m...

I just finished listening to that episode this morning, and absolutely cannot recommend it highly enough. Some of the best radio I've ever heard.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#46

Post by randomdata »

jfoutz wrote: post #12
marknutter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ditch every piece of technology then?

It's a really tough call. Is it ok to keep using the phone i have? well, yeah. the damage is done. i'd think of that as something like a vintage fur. the animal won't get any more dead. the bigger question is, is working at foxconn better than starving on the farm? I don't know much about rural China. I have a hard time believing that people would be driven to suicide without the factory job. also, a lot of stuff i c…

> Is it ok to keep using the phone i have? well, yeah. the damage is done.

Our society generally disagrees with the idea that the damage is already done. For example, we can look to child pornography. Technically speaking, the damage is already done, so we shouldn't be concerned about the photos themselves. However, the sale of the photographs still demonstrates a market for which others will continue to try to fill, and therein lies the problem.

By buying a phone, the manufacturer of said phone will set those workers to work on the next generation phone in hopes that you will buy another. It's going to take a few generations for them to finally realize that you are no longer interested in buying their products.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#47

Post by philwelch »

redthrowaway wrote: post #19
TylerE wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted. Conditions for the lower class in China are abominable with industry or without. The alternative for those workers is to go back to their home village and do subsistence farming. It's not like they have a ton of options.

Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea. I agree, those workers are probably better off working at Foxconn than if they stayed in rural areas and survived by subsistence farming, but it's still a moral grey area. It's akin to saying that slaves lived longer and in better conditions picking cotton in Alabama than growing beans in Africa. It might be true, but it doesn't make it good.

A few decades ago, buying anything made in Korea or Japan was fraught with the same moral dilemma. Until we bought so much stuff from Korea and Japan that Korea and Japan turned into rich countries. You could buy stuff that was made in America, but crack open a history book sometime--this was how America became a rich country, too.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#48

Post by Anechoic »

redthrowaway wrote: post #19
TylerE wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted. Conditions for the lower class in China are abominable with industry or without. The alternative for those workers is to go back to their home village and do subsistence farming. It's not like they have a ton of options.

Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea. I agree, those workers are probably better off working at Foxconn than if they stayed in rural areas and survived by subsistence farming, but it's still a moral grey area. It's akin to saying that slaves lived longer and in better conditions picking cotton in Alabama than growing beans in Africa. It might be true, but it doesn't make it good.

> Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea

Do we know that the Galaxy Nexus is completely Foxconn free? Foxconn may not assemble the phone, but they make a lot of electrical components and Samsung is a Foxconn customer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#49

Post by srdev »

redthrowaway wrote: post #19
TylerE wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted. Conditions for the lower class in China are abominable with industry or without. The alternative for those workers is to go back to their home village and do subsistence farming. It's not like they have a ton of options.

Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea. I agree, those workers are probably better off working at Foxconn than if they stayed in rural areas and survived by subsistence farming, but it's still a moral grey area. It's akin to saying that slaves lived longer and in better conditions picking cotton in Alabama than growing beans in Africa. It might be true, but it doesn't make it good.

Any sources that the Nexus is actually built in Korea without Foxconn involvement? Samsung is a Foxconn customer.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#50

Post by capisce »

marknutter wrote: post #10
Klinky wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going on strike in China is suicide ...

Well, if they're planning on killing themselves anyways, what's the difference?

Going on strike wouldn't be effective, there are tons of people waiting in line to replace them. Apparently people are even paying "recruiters" for these jobs, or agreeing to go without salary the first month.
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