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Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

theatlanticwire.com

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Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#21

Post by joedisky »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #5
sosuke wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Foxconn just doesn't respond? Would anything actually happen to them if the people mass suicided?

Would you buy a bloodPhone?

you just gave me a great idea for a movie plot. "Blood Smartphone". A movie about Chinese family working in FoxConn and struggling through live; lots of blood, tears, sweat, abuse, poverty and death. And at the end, a dumb american teenager with bracelets buying an iPhone and downloading Angry Birds and Plants versus Zombie all happy and excited.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#22

Post by maratd »

One of the hallmark properties of a market economy is that you have choice. You don't like your compensation? You quit. The truth is that everyone at the factory is there because they want to be. Because it beats being back on the farm. But still, Foxconn created the problem.

When Western media freaked out over the suicides, Foxconn got scared. They started making their employees sign non-suicide agreements. What? That is the height of stupidity. If a worker wants to commit suicide, a contract isn't going to stop them. However, if a worker does not want to kill themselves ... it creates a new bargaining opportunity.

I have zero sympathy for Foxconn on this. They created the problem with a bad business decision, by explicitly broadcasting where they were vulnerable and making themselves even more vulnerable.

You don't need to be sympathetic with the workers either. They're just negotiating for higher pay in a unique way. Completely within their rights. Nobody is jumping. The ones who are going to jump won't advertise it or ask for anything beforehand.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#23

Post by dreamdu5t »

redthrowaway wrote: post #19
TylerE wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted. Conditions for the lower class in China are abominable with industry or without. The alternative for those workers is to go back to their home village and do subsistence farming. It's not like they have a ton of options.

Or you could buy a Galaxy Nexus, made in Korea. I agree, those workers are probably better off working at Foxconn than if they stayed in rural areas and survived by subsistence farming, but it's still a moral grey area. It's akin to saying that slaves lived longer and in better conditions picking cotton in Alabama than growing beans in Africa. It might be true, but it doesn't make it good.

Your analogy isn't applicable. What made them slaves is they were not allowed to return to Africa to do whatever. The Foxconn workers are not slaves. They can go back to farming or choose another job.

An employee who serves you is not a slave because he makes less than you.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#24

Post by drhowarddrfine »

When I hear about these things I can't help but think, this is how it is over there. This may be their culture and way of life. So how should we think about that? I do know that some have expressed unhappiness over the hours but, in the NPR story, I didn't sense it was grief. So I'm just unclear what to think.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#25

Post by dreamdu5t »

srdev wrote: post #14
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a really tough call. Is it ok to keep using the phone i have? well, yeah. the damage is done. i'd think of that as something like a vintage fur. the animal won't get any more dead. the bigger question is, is working at foxconn better than starving on the farm? I don't know much about rural China. I have a hard time believing that people would be driven to suicide without the factory job. also, a lot of stuff i c…

I'm not sure what marknutter's intent was, but Foxconn really manufactures a lot of stuff beyond smartphones. PCs typically have Foxconn parts in them, as do routers. Any tablet you own has a good probability of being touched by Foxconn. Even if you get away from Foxconn completely, a lot of Chinese manufacturers have the same problems with less press. So the more pertinent question in my mind is, "Is there any compa…

I think the pertinent question is, "What constitutes ethically built technical gear?"

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#26

Post by a_a_r_o_n »

jfoutz wrote: post #12
marknutter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ditch every piece of technology then?

It's a really tough call. Is it ok to keep using the phone i have? well, yeah. the damage is done. i'd think of that as something like a vintage fur. the animal won't get any more dead. the bigger question is, is working at foxconn better than starving on the farm? I don't know much about rural China. I have a hard time believing that people would be driven to suicide without the factory job. also, a lot of stuff i c…

"It's a really tough call. Is it ok to keep using the phone i have? well, yeah. the damage is done. i'd think of that as something like a vintage fur. the animal won't get any more dead."

I'm not taking a side, in this comment, on the Foxconn question.

I believe the response from the anti-fur side to your observation is that, by continuing to wear and display the vintage fur, you help to prop up the perceived value of fur in general and encourage more furs to be ripped from the rodents.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#27

Post by a_a_r_o_n »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #5
sosuke wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Foxconn just doesn't respond? Would anything actually happen to them if the people mass suicided?

Would you buy a bloodPhone?

Most people would. It's one thing to switch registrars and get exactly the same thing as you had before. It's quite another thing not to have your smartphone at all. How would you check in?

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#28

Post by galadriel »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #5
sosuke wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Foxconn just doesn't respond? Would anything actually happen to them if the people mass suicided?

Would you buy a bloodPhone?

How many suicides would it take before Foxconn is out of business? 1, 10, 1000, .... ? . People already know of dozens or so suicides that have taken place in Foxconn. If people kept on buying stuff regardless, what difference would more suicides make?

Call me cynical, but everyone loves cheap products much more than far removed suicides of random people half way across the globe.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#29

Post by daenz »

joedisky wrote: post #21
juiceandjuice wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you buy a bloodPhone?

you just gave me a great idea for a movie plot. "Blood Smartphone". A movie about Chinese family working in FoxConn and struggling through live; lots of blood, tears, sweat, abuse, poverty and death. And at the end, a dumb american teenager with bracelets buying an iPhone and downloading Angry Birds and Plants versus Zombie all happy and excited.

I can see the transition shot already: a SnorriCam (one of those cool mounted cameras) following the smartphone down the assembly line, past the family, in dingy blue factory lighting. It loads into a box, onto a truck, into a shipping container, over the ocean, unloaded, and finally in a cheery white and shiny Apple store. The teenager convincing his parents to purchase the phone says "but everyone else my age has one!" The camera then cuts back to the Foxconn factory, where a younger member of the assembly-line family stares bleakly into the camera.

Re: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicide for their working conditions

#30

Post by Karunamon »

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #20
Karunamon wrote: post #18

FTA: (apple) so obsessed it even programmed Siri to avert uncomfortable questions about its origins ... freakin' really??? And I suppose that when I ask Siri in jest to open the pod bay doors, I should be worried that my phone is plotting my demise based on the response?

I think this may be a reference to the recent episode of This American Life on the topic [0]. On that program they use this issue as a light introduction to the main theme, just a curious feature of Siri that when you dive deeper leads to an interesting story. [0] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/m...

What I was expressing such shock at was the way they phrased it. If you look at the image to the right of the offending sentence, it's a Siri screenshot with

Siri, where were you made? Siri: That's classified.

I don't think this is Apple "programming siri to avert uncomfortable questions" as much as another joking response to a nonsense question along the lines of "Open the pod bay doors" or "What is the meaning of life".

The implication struck me as utterly absurd.

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