At long as there are wild, native apples growing somewhere, would that be enough genetic diversity to recreate similar varieties to anything that's lost?
Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
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Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
They don't hybridise as far as I know, or don't give anything long-lived. An interesting hybrid though is x Sorbopyrus, a cross between a pear and sorb tree.
There are some apple-pear hybrids that produce fruit. Development work seems ongoing in Germany. Unfortunately for me as (mostly) an English speaker, most of the papers describing it are in German. Here's a summary of an abstract in English, though: https://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US2014... . If you search for the primary author plus some keywords (Thilo Fischer Apfel Birne) you can find article…
I have never eaten it, but it's at the top of my list of trees to grow once I have enough space for it.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#63At long as there are wild, native apples growing somewhere, would that be enough genetic diversity to recreate similar varieties to anything that's lost?
Probably, but whether the particular combinations occurred again would be a more complicated matter. They don't breed true, so every new tree is pretty much a random experiment.
(a given variety is propagated by cutting and grafting)
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#64Kind of related: in former Eastern Germany they bred all kinds of new Pear varieties. Pears are a little more finicky than apples and the fruit bruise more easily. Furthermore a lot of the varieties will go bad really quickly, so you basically have to eat them from the tree. Because of those reasons there are just one or two varieties available in stores and there is not a lot of commercial interest in Pears. With th…
As you seem to know something about this, what's an apple/pear hybrid like? I assume they do hybridise. How about pear/quince? That should be an interesting one.
apple and pear don't hybridize. They don't even can be grafted one in the other. The tissues are rejected. There are round species of pears naturally shaped as an apple but they are not "pears" (common pears) neither apples. Are from Japan and are called nashis or sand pears. Tasty and crunchy, very good in salads
Pear and quince can hybridize producing a fruit called Pyronia (= Pyrus x Cydonia). Is not better than any of the parents, so it remains basically unknown and unavailable.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#65Ironically, you will never find the best-tasting apples in your local grocery store. The tastiest apples are often smaller, brown or dark skin, not the big red 'juicy' apples the uninformed consumer thinks are the best. Viz. the Red "Delicious", whose flavor was bred out in favor of color and appearance. It is now insipid and flavorless. In the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia, the humble-looking Cox Orange is sweet a…
I actually bought a box of Cox Orange online from this orchard in VT. They were good, but the descriptions are always better.
https://www.scottfarmvermont.com/coxs-orange-pippin
Salt Spring Island, BC also seems to have a big heirloom apple thing going on, for any Van folks. (ex: I bought a couple of trees from this orchard https://www.saltspringapplecompany.com/)
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
As you seem to know something about this, what's an apple/pear hybrid like? I assume they do hybridise. How about pear/quince? That should be an interesting one.
Not that knowledgeable. We just wanted to plant a pear tree when our kid was born. The tree seller was very chatty and knowledgeable. You also need to plant pears in pairs in order for them to pollinate each other. There are tables with which varieties go well with each other.
If you can, try comice. A diva to culture, but the fruit is fantastic.
Pears are not the easiest fruit to culture and in some areas is a doomed project from the start. --Don't-- buy trees in the supermarket without a sanitary tag. Go to a professional. Fireblight is a real pain
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#67Ironically, you will never find the best-tasting apples in your local grocery store. The tastiest apples are often smaller, brown or dark skin, not the big red 'juicy' apples the uninformed consumer thinks are the best. Viz. the Red "Delicious", whose flavor was bred out in favor of color and appearance. It is now insipid and flavorless. In the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia, the humble-looking Cox Orange is sweet a…
Any thoughts on the Arkansas black?
All "black" apples and red flesh apples are a little acidic. Arkansas black (is not really black) improves after storing it for some months. Not so good to eat directly from the tree.
There are apples to eat from the tree and apples to store for winter. Both groups are desirable to have.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. This is such a sad viewpoint on the world when biodiversity is valued only if it is commercially exploitable. See other threads on what "home in commerce" really means: optimizing for transportability and uniformity at the expense of flavor and nutrition. Late to the heirloom party, but this sum…
Saving heirloom apples has zero biodiversity value, or near two it. All domestic apples are extremely inbred and from a one or two cultivars brought to Europe a few hundred years back. The reservoir of apple biodiversity , at least for sylvestris is in its native range where domestic apple cultivation is actively polluting the genome. I think that's like khazakhastan and western china.
Common apple is still genetically very close to the true native species from Kazajahstan forests. This was a surprise for everybody.
There are other species from Japan to Siberia that can act as pollen donors.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#69Surely there oughta be better fruits to save. As a generic "fruit hunter" I hate all apples and oranges now, it's like there's no other fruit in the world. Go spread the seed of the ice cream bean fruit and tabo fruit instead.
Those don't grow in temperate areas.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#70Ironically, you will never find the best-tasting apples in your local grocery store. The tastiest apples are often smaller, brown or dark skin, not the big red 'juicy' apples the uninformed consumer thinks are the best. Viz. the Red "Delicious", whose flavor was bred out in favor of color and appearance. It is now insipid and flavorless. In the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia, the humble-looking Cox Orange is sweet a…
Cox Orange is a mythical cultivar. In part because the marketing but yep, is known as royalty. Sadly is known also to pick any fungus disease in the list. There are probably best new varieties. As a rule, the better taste a variety, the faster it spoils (unless you cheat).